The argument that everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian, and also every Christian belongs to the same group and is responsible for the actions of everyone who claims to be a Christian, is patently absurd.

You can have two people with wildly different beliefs, but if they both use the label Christian somehow they are both responsible for the actions of each other.

[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Those people also call themselves Christian tho, and probably call you a fake Christian. That's a big thing in Christianity, insisting that your brand of it is the only valid one. Yall are silly as hell, admit that there are shitty christians or accept that we don't give a shit about your half ass condemnations of shitty christians

[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Okay: there are shitty Christians.

Now what? Do I now have permission to call out their shitty behaviour and not somehow be responsible for it myself?

[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

You can and absolutely should call them out. You can call them fake Christians if you want I guess, but that's not really calling them out, it's clear you're just saying it to make yourself look better. No matter what your take on them is, I know for a fact that they're Christian, and you trying to cut them off from yourself like that just makes me think you're a lot closer to them than you're letting on. I can hardly think of any times I've seen Muslims deny that the Taliban are real Muslims, or Jews deny that zionists are real Jews. Why is it so hard for Christians to do the same?

[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You can call them fake Christians if you want I guess

Okay, so we agree that if someone says "This behaviour is not in line with the teaching of Christianity" then someone responding with just the words "No True Scotsman" is stupid, useless, and contrary to the point?

you trying to cut them off from yourself like that just makes me think you’re a lot closer to them than you’re letting on

"You trying to say your beliefs are not they same as their beliefs makes me think..... you have the same beliefs"? How does that logic hold up? Someone directly saying "They are not representative of what I believe" means they ARE representative somehow?

I can hardly think of any times I’ve seen Muslims deny that the Taliban are real Muslims

Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/16hpv7s/comment/k0h6q7z/

or Jews deny that zionists are real Jews

Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/comments/18j3yfz/not_a_real_jew/

[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Their behavior isn't in line with your brand of Christianity, it very much is in line with theirs. Just because you think you and your church are the only actual Christians doesn't make that the case.

"How does that logic hold up?" If you really didn't like them, you'd just denounce them, straight up. You wouldn't be so desperate to make sure we know that not only are they shitty, but you specifically have nothing to do with them in any way. You're both Christian, this is a fact that you can't weasel your way out of no matter how badly you wish you could. Continuing to pretend otherwise turns your denouncement into hollow self praise.

If you don't have anything new to contribute besides flapping your arms harder about how they're not really Christian, I'm done replying. I hope you get better at actually, meaningfully opposing the evil parts of your religion instead of simply distancing yourself from them

[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca -1 points 7 months ago

Their behavior isn’t in line with your brand of Christianity, it very much is in line with theirs. Just because you think you and your church are the only actual Christians doesn’t make that the case.

And here I thought we were making progress when you said

You can call them fake Christians if you want I guess

Don't know why you're suddenly walking that back.

If you really didn’t like them, you’d just denounce them, straight up.

In what way is "They're not Christians" not a denouncement, straight up? It is literally, directly saying, "How they behave does not reflect what I understand Christianity to be in any way." How can a Christians denounce their behaviour more than by saying "I don't consider them to be Christian"?

Denounce: verb
publicly declare to be wrong or evil.

Publicly saying "They call themselves Christians and they are wrong" is the dictionary definition of denouncement.

You’re both Christian, this is a fact that you can’t weasel your way out of no matter how badly you wish you could.

What is the definition of Christian? If it's "anyone who claims to be Christian" then the definition is so broad as to be completely meaningless. "You're both Christian" is just as relevant as saying "your both American." So unless every American is responsible for the shitty behaviour of any other American, it makes no sense for every person who calls themselves a Christian to be responsible for the shitty behaviour of anyone else who calls themselves a Christian.

People are literally publicly saying "I do not agree with any of their beliefs or behaviours", what more would you have them say?