this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2024
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Israel and Palestine Politics Discussion
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The sole purpose of this community is to discuss Israeli and Palestinian issues. It is not the place for hurling insults, rehashing grudges, or making up history. Any conversation that veers into the "if only your people had" realm will be deleted or locked right away. I started this community in the potentially fruitless hope that we may have a civil conversation about this issue.
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So you are essentially saying Hamas can do whatever they want on the basis that they aren't Israel.
Yikes.
Nope. I am categorically against terrorism under any and all circumstances.
You can condemn the actions of both Hamas and the Israeli government. In fact, it's morally and ethically reprehensible not to.
Good. In the future just say something along these lines so that people aren't getting the mistaken impression you are pro-hamas. Sadly, there are quite a few people on this site that description applies to, and believe me, you do not want to get mixed up for being one of those guys, like boomer or core.
No. It's not reasonable to demand that every criticism of the genocide mentions Hamas. Just like you'd never agree to add "and the IDF are awful too" every time you condemn Hamas.
No reasonable person automatically infers "I like Hamas" from any criticism of the genocidal actions of the Israeli government.
Without a doubt fewer than you think/pretend to think.
Like with Trump, a Zionist saying that is usually indicative of a lie or, at best, a distortion of the truth is coming or directly preceded those words.
Luckily, nobody arguing in good faith has ever made that mistake since I've never said anything positive about the terrorist group Hamas.
I'm not a Zionist.
This is a big issue with people who have just joined the movement. They think everybody who lacks their passion is an enemy, without realizing that some of us have been here quite awhile and have discovered that accusing everybody we don't like of being a Zionist hurts more Palestinian people than it helps.
Take the criticism and do better and stop being a narcissist. This is about liberating the people, not you feeling good.
Good. Could you stop being a defeatist and counterfactual doomer, then?
I've been Pro-Palestine since I first learned about the conflict in the mid-90s. Pro-BSD since I first heard about BSD a couple decades ago. I'd hardly call that "just joined".
That part is true. Dismissing something that would be a complete game changer by claiming that it would make zero difference hurts the cause as well, though. Some would argue much more.
Right back at you, doomer.
Where the fuck did THAT come from??
Vehemently disagreeing with your incorrect take does not equal anything even remotely approaching something that could be mistaken for narcissism in good faith.
Could have fooled me with your doomer nonsense.
I don't believe you know what a doomer is, and your insistence on calling people that after being called out for hurling accusations of Zionism leads me to believe you are just using the word to mean Zionist without actually having to reflect on why you and I are at odds despite the fact that we hold the same beliefs.
It may fundamentally be an issue of behavior.
I'm going by this definition:
Your claim would qualify as such pathological pessimism.
Nobody except someone who's either a Zionist defending the weapons shipments or extremely pessimistic would make such a wild claim in good faith.
Nope, see above.
Perhaps because you keep ridiculously insisting that one of the important steps to stop what we both abhor wouldn't matter? That would tend to put people with similar beliefs and/or goals at odds with each other.
True. I'm fast running out of reasons to believe a word of what you say, since you're being so obtuse that it's almost a given that it's willful by now.
Well I'm not a pessimist, I feel no sense of helplessness and in response to claims of aimlessness, I actually think that kind of is what my problem with your words have been. Aimless and unhelpful, mostly to the Palestinian people.
This is my issue. You are allowed to just lie about others and pretend its saving lives, while you would never grant me access to that same behavior. This is the narcissism I was talking about.
I have done no such thing at any point.
Still doesn't make the least bit of sense. Just leave me alone, please.
You accused me of being both a Zionist and a doomer, with zero regard to the truth value of those accusations.
But yes, I think our conversation has reached its natural conclusion. Best of luck to you.