this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2024
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Is "latine" the new latinx after that got overwhelmingly rejected by actually latino people? If so that seems very presumptuous to try, again, to push something onto a foreign language the speakers do not want.
It also reads very unfortunate, I did a triple take because I kept processing it as latrine.
Native speaker here and I totally agree. Every other word is gendered. What, am I gonna call a washing machine lavadore or car carrx? This definitely feels like North Americans trying to colonize our language.
Should we get rid of the word "refriador" then? How about "computadora"? Words borrowed from one of Mexico's conquerors?
Lengas combia con tiempo. Si no quiers combira, aprendate Azteca o Maya. Los "verda" lenguas de Mexico y la Yucatan.
Honestamente tengo mis problemas con los españoles quitando tantos idiomas y creencias indígenas para empezar. Pero no estamos hablando del nahuatl o de los mayas.
Aunque es cierto que idiomas vivas cambian para reflejar los valores y preferencias gramáticas de sus usuarios, no es algo que puede ser forzado de tal manera. Palabras son "prestadas" de otros lenguajes todo el tiempo para describir cosas nuevas o por lo menos para sonar un poco más distinguido. El problema que yo veo con cambiando todo un idioma que requiere género con tantas palabras es que se va a transformar a todo un nuevo idioma para acomodarlo. Eso requiere un nivel de coordinación entre gente e instituciones y gobiernos que no será fácil si no imposible.
Intenta leer todo este pasaje con cada palabra que termina con o/a en la manera que esta gente insiste sea más "inclusiva". Verás que va a sonar cómo una forma de catalán censurado.
Makes me think of latrine
Well it’s actually Latiné, so not pronounced “la-teen”
You're clearly speaking french. Latiné lmao
It could be joke about Mexico has actually been conquered three different times; and how the language most Mexican speak today is actually a amalgamation of Spanish (from spain), French, English AND their native languages.
I think Latin@ would be a better fit since it has both a and o in it. Who do a write to make this proposal official? Where is Latin@america central command?
Latinao?
(a + o)/2 = ė
Both of them were created by the queer community in Latin America but sure "pushing something onto a foreign language the speakers don't want"
Acting like queer recognition is just white people shit is about as racist as you're trying to make using a different word sound so how about we settle the fuck down about presumptuousness.
Typical white-american sjw behavior: using the queer community as an immunity card to say whatever you want and call transphobes to anyone who disagrees.
The queer community is a minority of latino america, they don't have the final say over the rest of the people just because, non-queer people also deserve proportional recognition you know. And even if they did, that "latine/latinx" bs was made up by a minority of the queer community in an attempt to simulate the (grammatical) gender-neutral language seen in English and inexistent in Spanish.
So yeah, keep acting like forcing (again, grammatical) gender-neutral expressions over spanish-speaking cultures is not fucking racist. I'm gonna keep using the appropriate gender when speaking/using spanish words.
‘Latinx’, un término que busca ser inclusivo entre los latinos
The conversation about latine replacing latinx is not new and not solely about the inclusion of queer communities but the fight for equality for feminist causes as well. You do whatever you want when speaking my language but as a native speaker I can tell you I want my words to have inclusivity.
I'm Spanish and still fail to see how adopting USA's culture is inclusive to anyone. I mean you do you, I just get annoyed when someone talks about this without even knowing the language they want to change.
Edit: Forgot to add the fact "Latino" is an abbreviature of "Latinoamericano/Latinoamericana". Now could you explain please what a Latinxamericano/a is and if it tastes good?
As a Spaniard explain the inclusion of the words big data, cookie, crack and balconing into the official language this year. Is the European language influence better than the American one for you?
Also I’m not advocating for the use of Latinx like at all. You want to get pissy with me that’s cool but at least be right.
It's also not a question just being asked in the hispanosphere
In France l'acedemie francais had a category five meltdown over people using, in their own personal writing, a form of titles that included both the feminine and masculine endings when referring to everyone who identified by that title
They aren't even inventing a neo-pronoun or de-gendering nouns, they're just using both endings to be inclusive and even Macron's ministers were calling it the end of frenchness.
Like guys, if the danelaw theory is correct, this was a conversation you were gonna be having pretty soon anyways with federalization on EU members' lips.
As for myself, when speaking Arabic I use the local plurals for you and they instead of the gendered pronouns unless someone specifies what they want to be referred by. Not only is it more inclusive, it's also more polite anyways since enton' and huma can work honorifically like vous in francais anyways.
Here’s some reading that might interest you, What’s in a pronoun? Why gender-fair language matters
Basically keep up the good work, you’re doing humanity proud.
You were correct, this is quite an interesting read for me! Might actually send it along to some of my friends who work full time in D&I,
As for myself, I actually don't suffix persons purely because I think folks works better
Congressfolks, postfolks, policefolks, milkfolks, doesn't just neutral the name, it also feels like it makes them less hierarchical, folk carries a more friendly connotation as a suffix IMHO, in English it's normally used to refer to your parents or grandparents, compared to person or people which feels more sterile and official sounding in comparison.
Æ ðen ðeıŗ ïz muı pŗſënël bıf w ıŋglïc ſpelıŋ, wïtc Aı fıl ïz löŋ ovŗdu foŗ ë ſırıëſ ovŗhaul.
Sorry to see you are getting a bunch of hate but linguistic relativity is happening in real time as people angrily reply to you or people try to shout louder that they don’t want their language to change for the sake of inclusivity. Literally watching people live in denial and choosing to ignore that reality is changing around them is morbidly fascinating. This is a phenomena that transcends language, every fiber of humanity is diametrically opposed within itself. Some people want radical change and the possibility of prosperity for the majority and the other people want things to remain the same and within their control.
Like watching the bow burst on a sinking ship and losing yourself in the majesty and patterns within the utter destruction and chaos.
I think it's just anti-woke losers having a panic attack
They cling to the accusation of hypocrisy about cultural relativism so people who actually hold diverse cultures to the same D&I standards scare the shit out of them
They have nothing but made up arguments and things that endanger those arguments makadem real hekkin' amgy
You talk a lot, but we're having a discussion in english about how the whole hispanic community should follow USA's woke values because some french people say so while glorificating "Linguistic relativity", aka. "screw languages i don't understand". And I'm a loser for defending my language.
Come back when you know what you're talking about.
Nuestro lengua es un lengua de noestros concadores. Los conquistadors de Espania. No es un lengua de Mexico como Azteca o Maya.
Hello again moghafil, once again here on planet earth, literally nobody said you had to use the fucking letter, just commented on what you flipping a fucking table over other people choosing to use it for their own personal use of the language like a belligerent drunk accusing "you think ya better than me gringo‽" says more about you than about some global conspiracy of neocolonialism perpetuated by someone using a goddamned e.
You're not defending anything except your own ego, you are as a master of fortifications once said "an idiot alone on a wall", and yes, it makes you one of the most pathetic losers I've had the misfortune of having to stop and explain something very slowly to, not because I'm some kind of queer fascist conspiring to destroy the latin world one e at a time, but because you and like 5 other people are so explosively transphobic and enbiephobic that some not you person who you've never spoken to before using a single letter once because they want to in their own personal use of a language be more inclusive of others is grounds to dogpile on them about neocolonialism this and "muh language!" that and language settler shit this and destroying an entire culture that.
Either I am an expert gaslighter who has turned a single letter into a digital matador's cape for you to break your skull open against a wooden poll to be embarking on this campaign you accuse me of, or you're drunk and having an ego trip and this is what you're doing so that your niece doesn't kick you off the couch and make you uber home for the third time this week for being an obnoxious drunk "that relative" that ends up being NCd at the end of the story on RelationshipAdvice for harassing your kid for not forgiving you for punching their infant in the face or some crazy shit of that sort.
We are to all just bow before how you apparently know best because something something "my language" something something "stop acting like you're better than me" something something "that's not how linguistic gender works but also shut up about how that's totally how grammatical gender tends to end up working because I as a native speaker of a language deem this to be "white people shit" and also shut up about how all these reforms also come from other native speakers that also mostly just use it in their own personal writing and speaking and nobody is actually forcing anything but I want to defend sexism, transphobia, and enbiephobia without getting called out for it and you using a single letter in your personal writing and speaking feels like a threat to that so I'm gonna whip out the tired tucker carlson line about "shoving it down our throats" like a trench coat wearer about to get themselves added to a national registry."
Believe it or not, your mother moaning out in spanish instead of english when they made the mistake of not just swallowing you instead does not bestow upon you some divine right to declare what other people are and aren't allowed to do while communicating in spanish in their own personal writing and speaking.
Now go home, you may be sober, but you're as much an embarrassment as an ass up face in the pavement and vomit drunk.
Eso es mucho texto para alguien que no sabe distiguir entre un sustantivo y un adjetivo.
Edit: Sorry, forgot to translate to freedom: "TL;DR"
Damn talk 'bout being butthurt 👀
You edited for a joke but not to correct the spelling of distinguir while arguing about grammar. Class act, also your Spanish reads like translated text.
...Are you done bitching and telling me how to speak my language? Now I know less about my mother tongue because I mistyped a word. Yeah, pretty solid argument right here.
If that's all you can say I guess I'm done here already
¿Quihúbole? Enseña me o castiga me. Demuestra tu dominio sobre el lenguaje.
First of all, you made up the first word and wrote incorrectly "enséñame o castígame" wHIle arGUiNg aBouT gRAmMar. CLasS aCt. 👀
Now, unlike some people here, I'm not retarded enough to believe you'll actually listen to me even tho I'm right. So here's a bunch of tweets from the freaking RAE solving your lack of schooling so long ago i can't believe this is still subject of debate.
About gendered vs "neutral" (still gendered, but with neutral usage) words: https://x.com/RAEinforma/status/1098229948299399170
About why "e" and "x" bullshit is unnecessary: https://x.com/RAEinforma/status/1019910516154748929
And finally, what does "lenguaje inclusivo" actually means: https://x.com/RAEinforma/status/1446052782922993664
If you or the other clown have any other doubts: jusk ask them. Not me, you're a los cause for me.
Just shows that you remain ignorant of the Spanish language. Thank you for pointing out my errors I couldn’t be bothered to care when speaking to you.
Nobody's forcing shit, you're just too machismo to accept when someone tries to be nice in your language too
Singular they and neo-pronoun panic doesn't suddenly become woke because you're doing it in Spanish Moghafil.
Now you're calling me sexist just because? Btw, I'm finding hilarious the fact you assumed "machismo" is the masculine of "machista", a freaking neutral word. The irony here is gold.
I never said being inclusive is bad, just that there are more appropriate ways to do it without changing every other language into english, ways i use in my day to day btw. Adding random "neutral" e's and x's sounds just moronic to most native speakers who actually know that gramatical gender doesn't have literally anything to do with people's gender.
Spanish doesn't have "singular they", nor "they", and we mostly don't need it. Neo-pronouns sound unnatural. And arguing (in English ffs) with actual native speakers about how bad we speak Spanish is literally the definition of forcing your language and morals on others.
Bruh you're the one who barged into this argument over one letter but sure I'm the one forcing morals and language.
I didn't correct anything, y'all the ones who dogpiled as if that one letter was coming for ya damned kids, y'all are literally having a boogeyman reaction to seeing someone use one letter once.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/machismo
That's what I meant when I called it Machismo moghafil. Y'all are a literal army of fucking babies who are so fragile that even other people have to conform to your sense of the language or else it's gender colonialism or some spectacularly idiotic shit to justify why other people who aren't you choosing to be nice to the trans and nb folks is somehow shoving something down your throat.
You're like that bastard alcoholic nobody wants to confront at the party that starts throwing a shit fit because someone else decided to abstain for the night so they could be the designated driver for their friends.