this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
517 points (98.0% liked)
Technology
59594 readers
2887 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Dude. I just think you’re being naive as fuck. An aide. Talking to the press. Of course they’re going to say, “oh yes, we take constituents’ opinions to heart.” Any time an election comes up, the politicians will always tell you how much they care. If an aide were saying to the press, “I take calls all day. But it’s a bunch of angry people, and it’s my job to basically absorb them and listen for any threats. I rarely get half a second to tell representative X about what I hear. And when I do, it’s not like it matters,” well…that just wouldn’t happen. Because it’s the fuckin press and an aide.
But you said you’ve seen the study as well! The data has shown that their votes are not influenced by constituents contacting them. And then you said while that’s true, it’s just because not enough constituents contact them. I showed you how that spiked during the trump years. But their votes didn’t change.
How often do they say in campaign speeches, “well, you know right before coming out here I was reminded of Shana O’Malley, a single mother of four…” They couldn’t give two microscopic fucks about that when it’s time to vote. But when it’s time to make themselves look good? Sure. That’s where it’s useful.
Now, maybe on some smaller issues that aren’t as politically important—and surely this depends on the election cycle, whether they have someone challenging them hugely in the polls, they will take constituent contact into consideration…for their own ends.
But look at Biden right now. He can’t stop arming Israel to the teeth. People aren’t happy—especially those who would be voting for him. And he is still doing it. This is an incredibly touchy issue. And people are beyond upset over it. But people’s opinions don’t matter. Lockheed’s opinions? Sure.
Now, again, to clarify a little, when you get down to local politics, yes, I believe there can be some impact from contacting them. Also, when a freshman politician is trying to govern according to their values, they will take constituents opinions into consideration. There are instances in which I do believe it can have an impact.
But on the whole, you yourself have seen the study that shows that it doesn’t have a measurable effect on the way they govern. And you’re still arguing that it does, that it’s just not enough of us doing it. It’s nice you’re so idealistic about our political landscape. Maybe you’re young, I dunno. But it just feels like you’re being foolishly optimistic, with the data in your face refuting your point, and you’re still saying, “yeah, but…”
Its from your article, dude. Can't pick-and-choose what you want out of it, especially since you supplied it.
It does when enough of us do it.
You want to advocate for a better alternative? I'm all ears. ...
What.
I wasn’t trying to ignore something in the article. I was calling into question your naïveté for taking what some representative’s 20-something year old aide is saying to the press as proof that your point somehow had been proven.
[Citation Needed], right?
Got a better alternative? Yeah. Praxis. Direct action in your community to directly benefit those in need around you.
Vote, sure. Especially when trying to keep fascists from the door. But don’t expect inside the box, paint by numbers, establishment solutions to really have a true effect on a broken system. It’s broken for a reason.
No one is advocating holding hands and singing Kumbaya and everything magically starts working again perfectly.
It's broken for a reason, because we let elected officials get away with breaking it. Everyone sits on their ass and just make Lemmy comments. That does nothing to police the elected officials.
The system truly is designed to work when we all participate in it (also known as voting the assholes out of office, even with jerrymanding), and it's hard for it not to work if you have full participation.
Elaborate? Honestly asking.
Edit: Have you actually read through that whole article you linked? It really makes my point.
This is just two of the many examples that the article documents...
Again, I just feel like you’re being naive. And fuckin Chaffetz? That piece of shit? You think he gave half a fuck about what his voters had to say? He famously shut them out and hid from them, didn’t he? I don’t feel like searching that putz’s name. And he even said himself that it was “groups” that made him change his mind. That wasn’t citizen’s groups. That was interest groups.
But yes, I agree, let’s move on to something positive. Praxis is the concept among anarchists/socialists of smaller scale, direct action. You get a group of likeminded people together and go provide direct aid. FoodNotBombs is probably the most famous example. Instead of putting a bunch of effort into trying to change the minds of politicians and rallying likeminded people to put pressure on them to cast their vote to build a program that would, after being rewritten and amended and lobbied, amount to far less than anyone wanted and is thought of as a “step in the right direction.” It’s incrementalism. And all of that effort and time gets wasted.
Our entire concept of success in politics centers around incrementalism, and it’s led us down the exact path we’ve been on and has moved slower than the negative progress of the world changing for the worse under capitalism. Problems will always continue to mount faster than incrementalism will ever be able to put a dent into. But praxis is living your values directly. Believe in helping people? Help people. Don’t put all of your time and effort and resources into trying to get selfish motherfuckers that have only their own interests and the interests of those with money at heart to help people. In practice, any effort in trying to get politicians to help people only ends up helping the politicians.
Take all that time and effort and those resources and give them directly to the people who need it. That is praxis. And even though it’s on a smaller scale, the idea is that if everyone did this, the scale suddenly turns from local solutions to global ones. It’s a founding principle of anarchism.
I can give you some good books to read on the subject if you’re interested.
Thank you for the education. If you want to suggest any books please do so, I would honestly be interested in reading more about it.
As far as the other part of your comment, the first thing that jumped in my mind is "Why does it have to be an either/or thing?" One can attack the problem from both ends, and have a better chance of success.
With respect, I honestly believe my approach can affect positive change, it's not either a 0% failure or a 100% success, with nothing in between, as you suggest. I don't believe I'm being naive, it's just I've seen it work effectively in the past, as that article you linked aptly shows, by describing examples of such.
If nothing else, where we're at now is because of apathy. Apathy has proven itself to be not be effective to affect positive change. To advocate for involvement in the system is not a waste of time.
Based on your description, what you advocate for is a positive change. But it seems too micro of a change to really 'move the ball down the field', to borrow a phrase. To be fair though, I know very little about it at this point, so I may end up having to change my mind about that once I'm more educated about it.
Finally, I would challenge you though to not give up on engaging in the current system, if you're willing to think outside of your box, as I am of mine.
Otherwise, apathy will destroy us all.