this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2024
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Like Taking Crazy Pills Every Day (lemmy.world)
submitted 7 months ago by homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world to c/tumblr@lemmy.world
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[–] VoterFrog@lemmy.world 22 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Everybody thinks they'll come out on top after a "revolution" but they almost certainly will not. Such chaos is far more likely to help than hurt fascists. That's kind of their jam.

[–] butwhyishischinabook@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

See: Iran.

[–] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 21 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

AAAAnd China. The progressive communist revolution was pioneered by young and ambitious urban intellectuals to fight against warlords, Foreign imperialism, and old China; later also the attempted dictatorship of Chiang Kai-shek. Unfortunately, their hard work was eventually hijacked by conservatives and dictators.

A bit of fun fact: after the communist revolution and cultural revolution, China was slowly stepping towards democracy, through internal CCP reform:

called for the end of bureaucracy, centralisation of power as well as patriarchy, proposing term limits to the leading positions in China and advocating the "democratic centralism" as well as the "collective leadership".

Deng emphasized that the Constitution must be able to protect the civil rights of Chinese citizens and must reflect the principle of separation of powers; he also described the idea of "collective leadership" and championed the principle of "one man, one vote" among leaders to avoid the dictatorship of the General Secretary of CCP.

Unfortunately, the pro-democracy crowd lost, because they sided with Tiananmen square student protest. Their defeat eventually leads to the Tiananmen Square massacre. And the political power fallen into the hand of the conservatives.

after the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre, many leading reformists including Zhao and Bao were removed from their posts, and the majority of the planned political reforms (after 1986) ended drastically. Left-wing conservatives led by Chen Yun, President Li Xiannian and Premier Li Peng took control

The pro-democracy leaders were all weakened or arrested after Tiananmen Square massacre:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Ziyang

lost power for his support of the 1989 Tian'anmen Square protests.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Qili

he was purged for his sympathy toward the student protesters and his support for General Secretary Zhao Ziyang's opposition to the use of armed force.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bao_Tong

During the 1989 Tian’anmen square protests, he was one of the very few Chinese senior officials to express understandings with the demonstrating students, which led to his arrest shortly before the June Fourth incident.

So there might be a bizarre alternative world, where Tiananmen Square protest did not happen and China is now a democracy...

[–] butwhyishischinabook@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

Oh true! Great point, that example slipped my mind but very on point.

[–] bloodfart@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The bizarre alternative world isn’t even where the protests didn’t happen, it’s where agents of foreign governments and local fanatics didn’t hijack/build them up with the explicit goal of producing as much bloodshed as possible.

[–] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I was hoping tankies won't have a conspiracy theory about one of the most tragic event of human kind, but I guess I overestimated humanity.

These were well-educated, progressive, and ambitious students, passionated about a brighter future for China. They share the same vision and drive as the founding members of CCP. And they are more passionate about communism than all the tankies I have seen, and willing to sacrifice their life for their admirable goals.

Their requirements has always been simple and clear: build a progressive democratic government in Hu Yaobang's vision, and purge the conservatives like Li Peng from CCP, which is founded upon a progressive vision of China. Thus, they are needlessly and brutally murdered by conservatives who seek to stabilize their own power.

If you work for the CCP, I doubt I will be able to project any sense into your brain. I can only hope these word might be helpful for readers of your comments to gain some context.

[–] bloodfart@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Okay, I guess Chai Ling never existed and the multiple admitted connections to western regime change programs of three letter agencies are all cpc propaganda?

It’s one thing to say that the events are tragic and that it would have been good if dengist students could have implemented reforms, a sentiment I mostly agree with, it’s another entirely to suggest that there was no manipulation towards violence by people either directly or indirectly tied to western intelligence operations.

E: autocorrect dengist -> dentist where’s my denguin holding a pick hexbear emoji?

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Uh, US interference in Iran directly contributed to current affairs of Iran.

[–] butwhyishischinabook@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Correct, that's what I'm trying to say. The chaos resulting from the US interference led to the current regime using other factions to, ultimately, get into power and quickly turn against. Sorry if that wasn't clear.