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Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths (www.theverge.com)

submitted 7 months ago by jorge@feddit.cl to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

People DO try to directly compare Tesla’s most basic Autopilot to the most cutting-edge aircraft Autopilot systems instead of comparing it to basic systems.

Which I've already established is a fair assessment as most passenger planes DO have those functions. You ignored this. And continued to repeat your bullshit. Most people will not be familiar with the lesser autopilots (or more accurately attribute them to much older and lesser planes) because passenger airlines (the air transports more people ever get on) don't tend to have the lesser ones. You made the bold claim that these "Advanced" functions don't count in autopilot because planes don't even have it! You're FULL of it. Autoland has been around for over 50 years at this point. Hell we even have systems now (though not yet standard as far as I know) that can do autoland in emergency situations, (eg. not preprogrammed approaches/landings) https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/garmin-autoland-wins-2020-collier-trophy/.

Tesla does differentiate the capabilities of Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving.

Barely, actually let me challenge you here with one simple task... Go to their website and spec out a Tesla. When you get to the self-driving part. Find me where they define either term. Also notice the graphic that plays on the page too. I want you to specifically notice that "Auto lane change" and "Auto steer" (Which are simply "autopilot" features) are present on that definition. So when you buy a Tesla, and those features work and the ONLY time you've seen them shown was in reference to "Full Self-Driving"... This is why there's a class action going on, they do not define this shit. Or are you going to ignore that too? Notice that Tesla has started using the term "Supervised Full Self-Driving" (or Full Self-Driving (Supervised)) as a term. Because they've been caught out in the lie now and are trying to recover. If you actually want to continue this conversation in good faith you would prove that they present the differentiation at all between the two terms BEFORE a customer buys the product. Because only one thing is ever advertised and done so poorly that it insinuates both things are the same for Tesla.

[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Go to their website and spec out a Tesla. When you get to the self-driving part. Find me where they define either term.

Basic Autopilot is included with all Teslas now (standard as of April 2019), so it isn't an option you can select anymore in the configurator like it used to be. Enhanced Autopilot also is no longer offered, so the only upgrade listed is for FSD, because that's the only upgrade available now. It is listed separately from the included features and basic upgrades like paint color, wheel choice, and interior options.

The relevant linked support page at https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot goes into specific detail about what is included with both currently available options.

All the functions listed with the FSD upgrade, are NOT included with basic Autopilot and never have been. Enhanced Autopilot, when it was offered, included all the currently listed FSD options other than Autosteer on City Streets and Traffic and Stop Sign Control.

I used the Model 3 for reference, in case different options are there for higher end models.

want you to specifically notice that “Auto lane change” and “Auto steer” (Which are simply “autopilot” features) are present on that definition.

Well, you're wrong there. Auto lane change is NOT part of basic Autopilot and never has been. That is part of Enhanced Autopilot and FSD. Also, there are two options for Autosteer listed and differentiated based on road type. Autosteer under the Autopilot option is lane-keeping on highways, it even specifies that in its definition. FSD on the other hand specifically says "Autosteer on city streets".

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Autosteer under the Autopilot option is lane-keeping on highways, it even specifies that in its definition.

Where?

"Assists in steering within a clearly marked lane, and uses traffic-aware cruise control"

Where is "highways only" defined? Even their new definitions aren't consistent.

And great... I have to dig through support pages to find it!

Which exactly 0 competitors do. Hyundai, Toyota, Volvo... every company page I look at makes it abundantly clear what comes on the product (on the sale page) without digging through support pages. You know what else they do? Specify the feature without calling it some "fancy" shit. Adaptive cruise control is called out as just that. Not renamed to "Traffic-Aware Cruise Control" and then hidden under "Autopilot" with a vague definition and only presented to you at the sale page under "Full Self-Driving".

Here's a snippet from the user manual of a Model 3 2022... (I've reformatted it a little bit... cause the raw copy-pasta was atrocious)

These Autopilot convenience features are designed to reduce driver workload:
Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (see Traffic- Aware Cruise Control on page 85)
Autosteer (see Autosteer on page 91)
Auto Lane Change (see Auto Lane Change on page 93)
Autopark (see Autopark on page 98)
Summon (see Summon on page 100)
Smart Summon (Smart Summon on page 103)
Navigate on Autopilot (see Navigate on Autopilot on page 95)
Stop Light and Stop Sign Warning (see Stop Light and Stop Sign Warning (U.S. only) on page 94

And another snippet from a model 3 2020 manual...

These Autopilot convenience features are designed to reduce driver workload:
• Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (see Traffic-Aware Cruise Control on page 111)
• Autosteer (see Autosteer on page 118)
• Auto Lane Change (see Auto Lane Change on page 120)
• Autopark (see Autopark on page 126)
• Summon (see Summon on page 132)
• Smart Summon (Smart Summon on page 132)
• Navigate on Autopilot (see Autopilot on page 123)

So is smart summon, Auto Lane change, Navigate on Autopilot, an FSD thing? Or an Autopilot thing? I thought that Autopilot was just super simple? I thought the features WERE NEVER included in autopilot definition... And yet YEARS of manuals for the damn product says you're wrong. And that their current definitions have been modified.

Autopilot according to Tesla's OWN manuals is the feature set that ALL other "smart" driving features fall under. Just like with plane-based autopilots funny enough. But you do you man. There's no changing your mind on this and you've made that clear long ago. I just hope that others see how absurd this all is.

Edit:

Basic Autopilot

Also would like to see where that definition is... Cause you used the term... but it doesn't exist anywhere else.

Edit2: https://tesla-info.com/doc/mx/model_x_owners_manual_north_america_en_2019_0.pdf

For Model X as well (and in NA in case you're going to say "other regions")... Check page 95 in the pdf... Weird that a 2019 Model X has all those features labeled as "Autopilot" too eh?

Edit3: Minor formatting issue.