this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
318 points (73.4% liked)

Unpopular Opinion

6348 readers
33 users here now

Welcome to the Unpopular Opinion community!


How voting works:

Vote the opposite of the norm.


If you agree that the opinion is unpopular give it an arrow up. If it's something that's widely accepted, give it an arrow down.



Guidelines:

Tag your post, if possible (not required)


  • If your post is a "General" unpopular opinion, start the subject with [GENERAL].
  • If it is a Lemmy-specific unpopular opinion, start it with [LEMMY].


Rules:

1. NO POLITICS


Politics is everywhere. Let's make this about [general] and [lemmy] - specific topics, and keep politics out of it.


2. Be civil.


Disagreements happen, but that doesn’t provide the right to personally attack others. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Please also refrain from gatekeeping others' opinions.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Shitposts and memes are allowed but...


Only until they prove to be a problem. They can and will be removed at moderator discretion.


5. No trolling.


This shouldn't need an explanation. If your post or comment is made just to get a rise with no real value, it will be removed. You do this too often, you will get a vacation to touch grass, away from this community for 1 or more days. Repeat offenses will result in a perma-ban.



Instance-wide rules always apply. https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

(Content warning, discussions of SA and misogyny, mods I might mention politics a bit but I hope this can be taken outside the context of politics and understood as a discussion of basic human decency)

We all know how awful Reddit was when a user mentioned their gender. Immediate harassment, DMs, etc. It's probably improved over the years? But still awful.

Until recently, Lemmy was the most progressive and supportive of basic human dignity of communities I had ever followed. I have always known this was a majority male platform, but I have been relatively pleased to see that positive expressions of masculinity have won out.

All of that changed with the recent "bear vs man" debacle. I saw women get shouted down just for expressing their stories of being sexually abused, repeatedly harassed, dogpiled, and brigaded with downvotes. Some of them held their ground, for which I am proud of them, but others I saw driven to delete their entire accounts, presumably not to return.

And I get it. The bear thing is controversial; we can all agree on this. But that should never have resulted in this level of toxicity!

I am hoping by making this post I can kind of bring awareness to this weakness, so that we can learn and grow as a community. We need to hold one another accountable for this, or the gender gap on this site is just going to get worse.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] yuri@pawb.social -1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Men are not a marginalized group. With the concerning amount of antisemitism becoming common in the US, it’s VERY bad faith to try comparing the perceived discrimination against a hypothetical man to the actual struggles of real people.

[–] Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Stereotyping people based on aspects of their personality they were born with is wrong. Period.

[–] yuri@pawb.social -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Die on whatever hill you want to, it doesn’t make it a valid comparison.

Making judgements based on your past experiences is vastly different from doing so on cultural stereotypes. I have never pointed to stereotypes or “vibes” or anything else non-concrete. I am drawing on my lived experience to inform my opinions.

Let’s just be explicit, are you saying rape victims are biggoted for having trauma involving men? Because that is absolutely the core of the issue here.

[–] Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

By your logic a person who gets assaulted by a black person allowed to prejudge all black people.

I feel perfectly fine saying that's morally wrong.

[–] yuri@pawb.social 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

By your logic, it’s the assault victim’s fault that they have any notions at all. Trauma can manifest in all sorts of fucked up ways bud, we don’t get to choose.

It’s whacky to say something is “morally wrong” while completely ignoring it’s cause, context, and any other relevant factors. There’s this little thing called nuance that you’ve been stomping on all this time you’ve been trying to paint me into a box.

[–] Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I was sexually assaulted by a female family member as a child. Repeatedly. I was then made to believe that that was "fun" and to seek it out.

My experience does not under any circumstances allow me to be a misogynist.

I find bigotry wrong. It took a lot of years to process what happened to me at the ripe old age of six, but it was my moral responsibility to do so rather than to take the shortcut to hatred.

[–] yuri@pawb.social 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Never have I ever in this entire discussion said anything other than “I am cautions around men” and “It’s not wrong to feel that way”. Everything else has been me defending those two very simple statements.

I’m very sorry that happened to you, that’s absolutely abhorrent.

I am by no means trying to minimize your experience or compare our traumas. I will just say that I was sexually assaulted by a stranger. My circumstances haven’t changed at all since it happened. I could still be easily physically overpowered by just about any random stranger, and my experiences force me to consider that as a very real possibility.

[–] Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Victimhood does not magically bestow virtue.

Victimhood is not a free pass to behave immorally.

Victimhood is not permission to be prejudiced.

Victimhood does not give a person permission to hate.

Mistrusting half of the human population because of the genes they were born with isn't being cautious, it's being prejudiced.

[–] yuri@pawb.social 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I didn’t pretend to know what your life is like, you shouldn’t with mine. You’re asking me to trust every stranger and all I’m asking for is some empathy.

Here you are bestowing such judgement while berating me over being cautious. Really cementing all my preconceived notions of random strangers and reinforcing the very behavior you insist is morally wrong.

[–] Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I spent years being horrible to women and drinking because of the resentments I had.

Don't make my mistake.

[–] yuri@pawb.social 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You seem to think you know a whole lot about how I interact with men. The only thing you’ve been given is “I’m cautious” and you’re comparing me to, in your words, a horrible alcoholic.

I am not you, my life is not yours.

You can be polite, nice, compassionate, etc. without TRUSTING someone. You can do right by people without giving them your trust. A lack of mutual trust does not perclude being a good person.

Implicit trust in a stranger is at best naivety, at worst ignorance.

[–] Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Good luck with your endeavors.

I tried save you a lot of years of suffering, but you're obviously not ready to drop the hate and resentment.

I hope you're ready for that soon, for everyone's sake.

[–] yuri@pawb.social 1 points 6 months ago

I hope you drop the superiority complex someday. Assuming you know better than someone you know practically nothing about is delusional.

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Nah. It’s not bad faith at all. You are perceiving it that way due to external factors. But the truth of the matter is the same. Change it from Jews to Asian. Or any other group and I bet you’d never say it.

So because you state “men are not a marginalized group”, men aren’t able to be used as a comparison as a group of people?

Sounds like you are marginalizing men totally and are so sure of your “fact” that it clouds your judgement.

[–] yuri@pawb.social 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What the fuck ever dude, big apologies to all the men I offended. VERY glad I don’t know any of you clowns in real life. Good luck interacting with women.

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It’s not about offending anyone. It’s about you marginalizing groups because you believe XYZ. You are doing the thing you hate.

[–] yuri@pawb.social 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 2 points 6 months ago

Name calling doesn’t really change my opinion. But you do you lol.