this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2023
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Yup, the flip side of the coin is that reddit really has a hate boner for China. The anti-CCP side has its own collection of nutty people, with a lot of the talking points tracing back to the ~~cult~~ nice people that send out all those Shen Yun flyers.
Shit's complicated. That said, banning all criticism of the Chinese government isn't the answer. We need to be smarter about the information that we digest.
It really isn't that complicated. If Chinese politics is to be taken seriously, then there is a ton of low hanging liberal fruit for the picking. There is no reason for the Chinese legal system to not have public trial, for starters. There is no reason for China to censor the internet or speech or free association the way it does. And most importantly, there is no reason for China to not confront the very real sins of Mao and Deng in public.
I agree there is complexity which exists beyond this kind of stuff. But these are first principles for free society, and political agency, and should be taken seriously.
I'm sympathetic to what you listed, and it would be nice to see those things come to pass. I'm just cynical about anything that starts to sound like "regime change" after watching the US campaigns in the middle east these past couple decades.
Even though Tiananmen was a long time ago, there have been more recent cracks in the facade like the unrest over lingering COVID zero policies. It's encouraging to know that people do have limits, but I don't know how popular those sentiments are across the broader population.
It's always nice to hear from someone else that recognizes how similar all this saber rattling is to the buildup to the first iraq war. All of a sudden after years of radio silence, everyone seems to care really deeply about the situation in another country.
it's also possible China censored the internet as a form of protectionism. social networks tend to form monopolies because people go wherever everyone else is. whichever state that network is based in then gets a boost to its tech industry
You're somehow implying that being an anti-ccp "fanatic" is basically crazy, and that people should reconsider their position... because... ? hate boner for china? what does disliking the CCP have to do with "hating china"?
You can dislike the CCP without hating China, or being fanatical about it. There are people that have trouble with it, though. As an example you could say that the CCP sponsors campaigns of corporate espionage on a large scale to steal technology from other countries. That one is pretty uncontroversial. But some people have trouble preventing themselves from taking it further and making generalizations about how creative the country's citizens are, as an example.
I haven't seen that. First time I see a suggestion such as that you're mentioning, that the Chinese could be uncreative. I read lots of Chinese books all the time and if anything I'd say they're more creative than western authors in many respects.
I think he's talking about the people who don't do anything but look for hateable things about the CCP
why should we look for likeable things about the ccp when they're committing genocide? lmao. and why should we spend effort looking for likeable things about the ccp when they have millions of genzedongers around the world (example: lemmygrad.ml) to do it for them?
No I'm not saying we should look for positives But aside from the big flashy stuff, you don't need to spend hours search for CCP raised taxes in Tibet at one point 5 years ago to know that the CCP is an awful government.
That sort of hatred I suppose leads to the sentiment that Washington is a perfect government etc, its a political view that's just as worthy of criticism as GZD, and also just as silly.
Now the CCP has done some horrible things and we SHOULD recognise them I think I've got my point across, there's a difference between hating the CCP and HATING the CCP I guess.
I don't HATE the ccp. I just hate reading support for it and for other communist tyrants. "oh but Marxism equality socialism ooh" sure commit genocide in the name of equality, get a Peace Nobel Price for eradicating an entire civilization, see if I'm gonna start thinking "oh but maybe I should be more lenient and think of the other side, I bet they also have good traits teehee".
I do hate the CCP, I don't need to spend every waking moment finding more evdience I already know they are awful. Between the on going genocide and the several of things they have done to retain power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely