this post was submitted on 30 May 2024
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[–] ryan213@lemmy.ca 153 points 5 months ago (26 children)

Do you guys think this matters to his voters/supporters?

[–] NeptuneOrbit@lemmy.world 209 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Some undecideds, sure. It only takes ten thousand voters in a couple swing states to change the outcome.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 55 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I mean, that could have been the difference in the 2016 election.

[–] dudinax@programming.dev 70 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Remember when Clinton lost the election because the FBI didn't find anything on her assistant's laptop?

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 73 points 5 months ago (9 children)

I mean she could have spent a weekend in Michigan. That was an unforced error.

She could have addressed her relationship with Goldman Sachs, and all the other banks that fucked over the entirety of the American people during the housing crisis that she earned millions upon millions giving "speeches" to.

She could have made an olive branch to the progressive caucus.

She could have not said "Sit down and shut up" to BLM activists.

There are a lot of things she could have done.

[–] msage@programming.dev 41 points 5 months ago (2 children)

She could have Pokemon gone to Michigan

[–] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 33 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Or, like, hear me out, the Democrats could have not nominated her and nominated someone who isn't strongly disliked by both sides.

[–] jpreston2005@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

Should've Been Bernie

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[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago (2 children)

She could also not have stolen the fucking nomination from Sanders

[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago

I think she would've won regardless of everything else, but it would've been closer. Really the mistake from the primaries is that she didn't really try to incorporate any of Bernie's ideas into her platform, or even work with him at all. She treated him as an opponent and obstacle, not as a rival and peer.

This is where Biden was successful however -- he didn't dismiss Bernie nor his platform ideas. He did incorporate some into presidency, most obviously the climate change policies and student debt forgiveness where possible.

And where I sincerely believe this difference came down to -- Biden was friendly to Bernie in the Senate and made an effort to be friendly colleagues, if not work friends. Clinton didn't. It shows the power of cooperation allying together with progressives, instead of allying together with "moderate" Republicans.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Its fine though. The Supreme Court said they can rig their own primaries. /s

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[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Voters decided against her for mishandling classified documents, right? So these same voters, who think things through with consistency and integrity, will decide against someone who stole boxes of documents and got CIA agents killed selling state secrets to Russia, right?

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[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 45 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It blows my mind that anyone can still be undecided in 2024.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 13 points 5 months ago

Lot of people don’t pay any attention to politics. Yes, even in this climate.

[–] AmidFuror@fedia.io 74 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Everyone talks about his base as an unmoving monolith. But to get elected, he needs more than his base. He needs the fence sitters. Many of these people may be very ill informed about all the corruption in his original administration and his business dealings. This result will make a big difference to them because it's simple to understand. He's a convicted felon.

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 27 points 5 months ago

34 times no less.

This. There's a lot of components to his base.

This is not a good outcome for his campaign.

[–] sanguinepar@lemmy.world 46 points 5 months ago

To many of them, no. To some who would have voted for him, maybe yes.

[–] mutant_zz@lemmy.world 42 points 5 months ago (4 children)
[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 25 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm making a called shot of a drop into the 40's for July's polling.

He wont' drop below 25%, ever. That's his core. They may never support another candidate again.

However, dropping to high 30's low 40's only puts Trump back to par with Biden. Hardly a W, but at lease Biden would be back in the running.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 15 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They may never support another candidate again.

Don't do that. Don't give me hope.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I mean it in a "There are still people who think gamestop is going to be a billion dollar stock" manner.

See: https://lemmy.world/c/gamestopstock

Cult/ Cargo cult level "They will never support another candidate again" is what I mean. They'll write him in. They'll have wild conspiracy theories. Not need to push. It will happen it on its own.

I would guess its around 25-30% of Republican voters. Its the conspiracy theory mind-set cutting backwards against those that seed it. There is no undoing this.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (3 children)

If Donald could please just die and they continue writing in his name for all future votes that would be great. They are the most ignorant and racist people within a party wholly committed to cultivating ignorant and racist voters.

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[–] nickhammes@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I suspect some people will mental gymnastics themselves into thinking this isn't a serious crime, and stipulating an abstract 'serious crime' yields more extreme results than we'll see as a result of this verdict.

But a few percentage point swing in a few key states is enough to ensure a Biden victory, so it may be enough.

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 29 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think "all 34 counts" is more meaningful than 33 out 34 or anything less.

Any truly room temperature IQ folks out there can maybe see the light. Maybe.

[–] Classy@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 months ago

Or they see it as "See? The courts are obviously corrupted. Not even one count was innocent? There's no way he committed THAT much crime."

[–] nbailey@lemmy.ca 21 points 5 months ago (7 children)

Anecdotal… we drove through rural Ohio a few weeks ago. In several hours of travel we only saw ONE trump sign. The same place in 2016 or 2020 would have been full of them. Regardless of the impact of this, the enthusiasm is dead. There might be “maga guys” on Twitter but they’re largely disengaged in real life.

[–] Daze@kbin.social 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Can confirm the other way around; Saw one sign in all of Iowa. None in Nebraska. It was pleasant aside from all the Jesus/Abortion signage lol

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I rode the MABDR last week which for me involves traveling through a wide swath of rural Pennsylvania. Nearly all of the Trump paraphernalia is gone from people's yards. I used to see hundreds of Trump signs and flags, confederate flags, the works. Now there are only a few dedicated nutters left. They know who they are.

  1. The Stan Clark Military Books store on 30 west of Gettysburg that has a massive "Don't Blame Us, We Voted For Trump/Pence" sign (notably, still including Pence!) right out front of their business. Here it is on Street View. As an extra slap in the face, this is right on the edge of the Gettysburg battlefield and memorial.
  2. The twerp in Biglerville who has his tiny front yard fenced off with chicken wire and used to have a life sized Trump mannequin in his lawn dressed up in propaganda T-shirts all the time. I thought for sure he moved since all was subdued there for a few months last year, but now he's got all kinds of Trump and alt-right flags all over his lawn and porch. His place was looking comparatively tame last year.
  3. The marquee on what I assume is the old bank building in Red Lion which has a marquee on it that reads "If Biden is the answer, how stupid was the question?" Street View link here.. The sides of it read "Frauds of 2020" and "Pause for enlightenment."
  4. The guy on 896 just south of Ninepoints with the giant "Trump Not Bought Or Sold" sign (except by the Russians, of course). He has another massive sign next to it with some anti-Biden thing on it but I can't remember what it says offhand. Alas, his Street View photo was apparently taken in 2019 which was before the signs went up.

The remainder of these dillweeds seem to be... curiously silent compared to previously. It's kind of weird.

[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 8 points 5 months ago

If you sneak into their safe spaces online you can definitely tell they are unmotivated compared to 4-8 years ago.

They liked Trump because he bullied others publicly. They don't want to side with the guy currently getting bullied, goes against their survival instinct.

[–] negativenull@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

I was just in South Arkansas for a few days, and only saw one flag, and no bumper stickers for trump

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[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago (3 children)

My gut feeling is there's nothing in this world that will sway his core supporters. Those rabid mouth-breathing dumbass kool-aid drinking dipshits would disown their own children if they thought one of them voted for a democrat.

However, I think it could sway a lot of swing voters away from Trump. In American elections for POTUS, swing voters are extremely important.

Unfortunately, Biden is fucking up so bad on foreign policy (Gaza) that will lose Biden a lot of swing voters, too. Still anybody's race is my guess.

This is just all my gut. It's hard to trust polls anymore.

[–] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 10 points 5 months ago

Swing voters either dgaf about Gaza or are in favor of what Israel is doing. Gaza hurts Biden with his base.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

Anyone who gives a shit about Gaza probably should try to ensure the country doesn't elect a Muslim Ban guy who wants to accelerate the genocide and deport anyone protesting it.

[–] suction@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Fuck off to Nick Fuentes then.

FYI: Those leftists are right wing trolls under a false flag, exactly like those “Biden takes 100% blame for Israel’s every action” guys. They come from /pol and Telegram.

[–] ulkesh@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

This matters to intelligent, educated, and critically-thinking people. So, no, it doesn’t matter to his sycophants.

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 8 points 5 months ago

Doubt it, but I don't care. They are basically a cult at this point, no rational thought.

This matters to everyone else. And it could keep him from being president again.

[–] return2ozma@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago (2 children)

It emboldens his supporters because they believe the "deep state", "witch hunt", "Democrats paid off the jury" etc according to social media now.

I could see Biden dropping out of the debate also saying "I don't debate felons".

[–] macarthur_park@lemmy.world 25 points 5 months ago

I doubt Biden would use this as an excuse to drop out of the debate. His campaign thinks the debate will help him more than Trump, and they’re probably right. Outside of his diehard supporters and people keeping up with politics, most voters haven’t heard Trump speak at length since the end of his presidency. The debate is an opportunity to remind them how fucking weird he is.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

Maybe his core supporters, but past elections have shown that he can't win the popular vote. He is dependent on swing states where there are more people on the fence, and this might be enough.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I think a lot of his supporters are mostly burnt out on him. Even the hardliners are really just in this for the Wrestlemania storyline quality and this guy isn't entertaining anymore, he just has legal bullshit around him, he says the same catchphrases all the time, he's looking older and more haggard than we've ever seen, and conservatives are super fixated on superficial appearances.

I don't think we're "safe" by any means, but I think a lot of people are going to fall off and it might make a large difference.

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