itt: a bunch of people spoiled by the fortune of not meeting enough actual Russians. They are overwhelmingly supportive of the war as it is fully aligned with the nation’s imperialistic identity, one that existed long before Putin was even born. Russia has amazing, brilliant, heroic opposition activists which are a slim minority, I’ve been told less than 1%. The rest are mostly like this woman (or worse)

[–] cybersin@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

You speak as if you believe Russia has freedom of press and right to openly protest. The fact is that the Russian state controls most of the public discourse, and any opposition is crushed. And you would place the blame on the victims of this regime?

EDIT: You seem like the type to believe Putin fairly won the election with 88% of the vote.

[–] iarigby@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There are issues that Russia has right now, and then there is a national identity that they have had for decades and centuries. You seem to not be educated about the latter part. The misinformation is effective and bloodshed in Ukraine is supported because the content and aim resonates with the population. Putin did not have to convince anyone there that Ukrainians (and other neighbor countries) don’t have the right to exist as an independent nation. Even the most popular opposition leader Navalnyi had some horrifying imperialistic quotes, he fully supported the war in Georgia, the thing he was opposing to was corruption, not occupation. And knowing these important details is crucial for understanding just how much of the responsibility for the war falls on the nation and not just Putin.

[–] cybersin@lemm.ee -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Putin did not have to convince anyone there that Ukrainians (and other neighbor countries) don’t have the right to exist as an independent nation.

This is absolutely not true. Many Russians have relatives in the countries which were formerly part of the Soviet Union. There have been many protests within Russia against the war, which were usually met with violent suppression. Many in opposition of the war fled if they were able to.

But I guess Russians just really want to fight against their foreign relatives, simply because they themselves are Russian.

there is a national identity that they have had for decades and centuries

Yeah, there was this one guy who was in power for like 24 years who was a part of the intelligence community before he became a politician. Before he came to power, the entire world wanted the nation gone (and still do). Crazy how having every western government hate you could be used to create a national identity.

for understanding just how much of the responsibility for the war falls on the nation and not just Putin.

If the Russian people are responsible, I guess we should start bombing Russian cities then. That sounds reasonable.

[–] iarigby@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

yeah the end of the comment makes it clear that you’re malicious. What you say is utterly immoral and pinning that statement to me is disgusting.

For someone else who does not see why the whole response is answering to claims they themselves made it up (and try to create an illusion that those were my arguments) I am arguing that a random person who clearly displays typical Russian values should not be given a kilometer wide benefit of the doubt. And ignorant people here should stop going out on a limb to keep defending “innocent Russian civilians” and insisting that it’s only Putin that is the problem. Because that claim is factually false and ignorant of Russian civil culture and widespread imperialistic values. I was only explaining a context about Russian civilians that is necessary to keep in mind when being confused by someone like this lady.

I have said before and I will elaborate that I completely admire Russian opposition and would literally never achieve fraction of their courage but despite being many, in a population of hundreds of millions, fraction wise they’re nowhere near being a major portion. I never said every single Russian supports the war, and you trying to push that I did to justify dragging in an unrelated argument about protests is another openly malicious move. It is exhausting to argue when the other person twists your words, whether due to malice or not having skills to analyze statements.

[–] rogerhaase@mastodon.social -2 points 5 months ago

@iarigby @cybersin exactly!

[–] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works -3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I work with several, you are just a bigot.

[–] iarigby@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I have dozens of Russian friends too, they explained all these things to me, especially since after the war many had to cut off almost everyone starting from family (I mean most of them had already cut off parents or at least a father since they typically beat the shit out of children) to classmates to other acquaintance. They were raised in Russia (those raised in western countries have a totally different background and are less severely impacted culturally) and were adults before Putin had absolute power. They say he just built on top of the identity of violence and imperialism. The Russian philosophers and political scientists they read and watch explain this. Are they bigots too?

[–] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works -3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

People are individuals who are more than the country and government they are from. If you believe that 99% of a country is the same, you are a bigot.

[–] iarigby@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I never claimed I believe that though, what I explain in my comments is vastly different from what you are attempting to pin on me. But you seem to desperately want to name call someone so whatever.

[–] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works -2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You said that people had "the fortune" of not meeting enough Russians and that less than one percent were in opposition. Perhaps you're are just sloppy with your language, but it sounds like you're just rocking the "one of the good ones" argument, so whatever.