this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2024
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Elon Musk condemns the use of electronic voting machines (EVMs) used in general elections in some countries. (lemy.lol)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by TVgog56789@lemy.lol to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works
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[–] NateNate60@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

The problem is not being secure; it is convincing people that it is secure. Even the stupidest person understands that marking off a paper in a booth and then depositing it in a locked box is secure. The voting method must give voters confidence that their vote was counted, the election was fair, and the results are legitimate.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 months ago

Also, you can recount papers if you think something somewhere went wrong for some reason. You can't manually recheck software.

[–] TVgog56789@lemy.lol -5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

That gives so much more opportunity for human intervention.

A good locksmith is all it takes to manipulate the votes.

Even if you keep it under tight security and surveillance they can bribe the security.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

In my state, here's how it works:

  1. Receive ballot by mail
  2. Drop ballot off at a drop box
  3. Wait a few days
  4. Check online that it was received and the signature is accepted
  5. Check on election day that the vote was counted

To break that system, you'd need to also hack the website or manipulate the votes on election day. That's a lot harder than manipulating proprietary software by bribing a software engineer somewhere.

[–] zazo@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

In my country here's how it works:

  1. Parties provides free food and transport to unemployed masses they know will vote for them
  2. Wait 3-4 hours in queue at polling station to receive ballot in person
  3. Drop ballot in secure box
  4. Go back to work for a few days
  5. See on election day that the party that spent the most on voter courting wins

How would you propose we deal with this when people who are working (and can't take a day off to go vote) would come out in much smaller numbers than ones that have nothing else to do (and get free lunch and transit to and from the polling stations) and even when voting happens on a weekend you have to trade your only time off to go and vote out of the goodness of your heart.

I think this is one of the reasons for digital voting - I'd much rather be able to vote from work or home or anywhere when I don't have the time to sit on a queue for 5 hours just to have my vote diminished by a group that isn't politically active but loves a free lunch and something to do

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

EVMs aren't a vote from home option, they just replace steps 1&2 with a machine instead of a ballot drop box. So maybe your wait goes down to 2-3 hours because it's a little faster.

I'm saying we replace the physical voting locations entirely and you can drop your ballot in your mailbox, or drop it at one of the secure voting boxes throughout the city. So it doesn't matter if you work two jobs and can't get a couple hours off, if you can check your mail and fill out a form, you can vote. And the ballot comes a few weeks before election day, so you have time.

I think we should also have a federal "election day" holiday so people can research candidates and vote.

[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

I believe that's why people are pushing for a week of early voting, and the ability to vote by mail with postage paid.
Also, if you increase the number of polling stations and keep them available longer, the wait goes down.
We can also pass laws to make it so employers must give workers time to vote at the workers discretion.

Most of what you describe is the result of an effort to make voting harder to keep turnout low. The way to fix it is to make it easier, not to make it less secure.

[–] TVgog56789@lemy.lol 0 points 5 months ago

I am not in favour of EVMs here.

However there are pros and cons for both systems

I am just saying if you go for an electronic voting system using an airtight blockchain like Bitcoin and ethereum to verify votes using a biometric database is the only system trustworthy enough because.

If you use multiple blockchains like these it would require 10 trillion dollars or more to get the computing and staking power to hack the system.

It's inconceivably costlier than hacking a physical election.

Russia also has paper ballots and I can assure you we can easily kick out Putin with a blockchain based voting system.

[–] NateNate60@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

In many countries there is a security camera placed over the ballot box which is livestreamed to the Internet

[–] TVgog56789@lemy.lol 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] NateNate60@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

"Playing board games is pointless because people can just cheat"