Hmmm π€ get rid of imola or or just make the car the right size. So hard to choose, so hard to choose.
this post was submitted on 22 May 2024
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The racing was terrible even when the cars were smaller.
This isn't a difficult choice.
So then we should get rid of Spa, Austria, Baku, Zandvoort, and Monaco? Now I know some of these tracks are not everyone's favorites, but it seems smaller cars would be easier. Plus smaller cars would make racing better at every circuit.
If you want to engineer every race to be the same sure. We tried that after Canada 2010, those early pirellis were something.
Okay... Not sure how you got that take from what I said...
You can't just change the cars for the sake of one track, a track that has historically been difficult for racing.
Similar to how forcing Pirelli into high deg tyres, chasing the energy of Canada 2010 was not a good move.
Not similar at all.
First there is already a size regulation. Is that size regulation better for racing? Seeing that almost everyone says it makes passing hard regardless of track. I think it is safe to say no, it is a suboptimal size. Remember they used to be smaller, a lot smaller. So this would be like going back to before tire deg.
Second you'll notice that I said
Plus smaller cars would make racing better at every circuit.
Clearly I'm not trying to change the cars for one track I'm not sure how you think I said that.
Lastly if you're going to argue the Imola is too narrow and should go away. Then you have to argue about all the other tracks I listed because they are all narrower. The cars not fitting is not the tracks fault it is the cars fault.
If you want to argue lmola is bad for another reason that's totally fine but if that's true then why did you respond to a post about car size, instead of something else.
Lastly if you're going to argue the Imola is too narrow and should go away.
Never said that.
What I am trying to get at, is that you can't force every race to be the same. And trying to is just going to lead to disaster.
Shrinking the cars isn't the silver bullet that'll fix whatever issue people have, especially at a track like Imola. It doesn't matter how big the cars are if they can only take one line through a corner.
Really you haven't said much. So I had to infer your argument based in part on you choice to reply to my original comment. All you have said is a vague thing about not making cars for just one track or not making every track the same. Two thing I didn't say should happen.
If you are not going to articulate a clear position with some logic behind it or even respond to my position, don't bother all you are doing is trying to move the goal posts.
Your original comment gave absolutely nothing to go off. What does the "right size" mean? You've never once explained that.
You can watch the WEC race at Imola this year and see that the cars aren't the issue. Or even the 2005 F1 race. It's just the nature of the circuit. Something that when I've brought up you've ignored.
So your hypothetical question is either, design the cars to do something the track won't allow, or dump a track that doesn't encourage overtaking. And I would much rather F1 dump Imola, then get lost chasing shadows. Hence the mention of Canada and early Pirellis.
Now you've also said that I must want other narrow tracks off the calendar. Which is a major leap in logic that i don't follow. And I've no idea how you came to that conclusion.
Shrinking the cars isn't going to fix anything. There is so much more at play. WEC Hypercars are bigger than the old LMP1 cars, but the racing is a lot better. Which according to you is physically impossible.
respond to my position
I have. Repeatedly. But it is quite hard when I don't think even you know your position.
See man that is what I was looking for. A clear position with underlining logic. If you had said something like that from the beginning. Instead of a one sentence jab. I might have agreed with you.
For me thinking that you had an issue with the width. Is something I had to infer because you responded to my comment about the cars being too wide for the track. Also you didn't refute it when I made that comment about the other tracks. Instead you started talking about pirelli tires.
I find it amusing that you don't think I have not articulated my position. Seeing you actually responded to my position in the last comment. Instead of talking about Canada and Pirelli tires. That seems like pretty good evidence that my position was clear.
Oh and lastly the question about how small the cars should be. You know that's a bullshit question right? That's a full on straw man. Clearly your goal there was get me to not have an answer for it. So you can use that lack of an answer to invalidate everything else I've said. Sorry not going to play.
full on straw man
I know your statement is. That's why it's been hard to respond. I'm still waiting on how you think smaller cars will fix Imola.
Man if the Monaco race didn't clearly demonstrate why larger cars make racing worse. There is nothing I could say to change your mind. It is not worth my trouble. You go ahead and think what ever you want to think, I wouldn't stop you.
Monaco has always been like that.
It's clear you don't know what you're on about, and are just parroting someone else's opinion. Maybe after a few years of watching actual races rather than tiktok highlights. You might understand racing.
Lol so you're saying that it is okay for Monaco to be boring and have bad racing but it is not okay at Imola? That seems pretty inconsistent. If you must know I was mostly referring to the half lap red flag that delayed the race for an hour. All three incidents that took place in that first half lab can be directly attributed to the cars being too wide for the track.
Do you have anything better than petty insults?
Lol so you're saying that it is okay for Monaco to be boring and have bad racing but it is not okay at Imola?
When did I ever say that? Also there's way more to racing than just overtakes.
too wide for the track.
Modern cars aren't any wider than they were in the 90's, 2 metres. Same width as the 80's and 70's.
Do you have anything better than petty insults?
When I'm making multiple points that you are just flat out ignoring. Choosing instead to bury your head in other people's opinions. It's the only thing you react to.
I mean, I'm still waiting on you trying to explain how shorter cars would improve racing.
π§
I think if they introduce a rotating calendar Imola would be an ideal track to have in the rotation. The racing usually isn't great, but it's not the worst, and it would still keep an iconic circuit in F1. Seems like a good compromise.
Hard disagree.
How can you disagree? Did we watch the same race?
I tolerate Monaco because it's been a cornerstone track for F1 since the beginning and "less about the race, more about the spectacle" as they say. Imola doesn't have the spectacle, and it doesn't have a competitive race. The cars can only pass reliably on a single corner. They are too long to make it cleanly through the chicanes. Unless the cars shrink, I'd rather F1 not spend another weekend here.
Monaco is even worse.
I think 20 of the world's best drivers should almost always equal good racing. Something must be wrong if that isn't true. Change the tracks, the cars, the regulations, the expectations of fans... is this a controversial idea?
Because I get how current F1 can have bad races. It all makes sense when you think about the big picture. The closeness of margins, the tires, the dirty air, safety. But if you step back it starts to feel absurd. If we're going to believe that these guys are the best then we have to believe that they're being wasted.
Any series that has independent development and no BoP is going to be uncompetitive at the front. Someone is always going to either spend more money or find a trick that sets them apart from the rest of the field.
Adding a BoP would kill the sport as we know it, and restricting development even more would be bad as well. F1 is the last true open development series. The rest all died for similar reasons.