"Rich people wanna control what you think and do!"
Right on, fight the power.
"Fat poor people shouldn't be able to eat fudge"
...bro what? Is this the same song?
this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
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Dumb song for dumb people, popularized by the right wing rage-media machine.
You know, fuck this guy.
He's basically just shouting into a microphone, barely on key. I'm getting kinda tired of seeing his face.
Billy Bragg responded and kinda fixed it.
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Dude complains about welfare and fat people, the song lacks class solidarity. I understand why people like it, but I still think his lyrics miss the mark.
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That’s a symptom, not the cause. The anger is misdirected.
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The corporations. The ones that bribe the rich men north of Richmond to not enact laws so they can keep making a dishonest dollar on the suffering of these 5'3" 300 lb sugar addicted people without money.
I don't get how this part of this song exists within the rest of the song. It's entirely antithetical.
So you should control what poor people eat?
Isn't that the complete opposite of the rest of the songs message?
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The songs message is a class struggle.
Except instead of us vs the rich people, he did us vs the rich people and us vs the poors. Which makes no sense.
I'm going to start using "they never leave their echo chamber " when people criticize rap music, video games, movies, books, gender, history, teachers, science, medicine, electric vehicles, immigration, grifting, etc.
I can see how the jabs at vices of sloth and gluttony might trigger those who struggle with such sins, however I think in the balance he was venting frustrations that are broadly bipartisan about poor wage rates and political leaders who may be failing the average person
Jesus loved welfare though. Big fan.
Jesus was the original Socialist.
voluntary socialism if you want to look at it that was isn't necessarily the issue (taking handouts people want to give privately), welfare is forcible socialism through taxes and government coercion - it's a different thing
Oh so we the people should rely on private handouts, just not government ones.
That... Doesn't sound like the Jesus from the Bible.
What examples of Jesus are coming to mind for you
I am so tickled youve asked!
clears throat
"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered." -Proverbs 21:13
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy." -Proverbs 31:8-9
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -Matthew 6:24
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'" -Matthew 19:23-24
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'" -Matthew 25:41-45
"He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker; whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished." -Proverbs 17:5
"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich--both come to poverty." -Proverbs 22:16
"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'" -Matthew 19:21
"He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses." -Proverbs 28:27
"People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." -1 Timothy 6:9-10
"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life." -1 Timothy 6:17-19
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." -Ezekiel 16:49
"Rich and poor have this in common: The LORD is the Maker of them all." -Proverbs 22:2
"He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God." -Proverbs 14:31
"A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor." -Proverbs 22:9
"Better a poor man whose walk is blameless than a rich man whose ways are perverse." -Proverbs 28:6
"A faithful man will be richly blessed, but one eager to get rich will not go unpunished." -Proverbs 28:20
"The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern." -Proverbs 29:7
"Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death." -Proverbs 11:4
"Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the LORD will take up their case and will plunder those who plunder them." -Proverbs 22:22-23
"Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint. Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone, for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to the sky like an eagle." -Proverbs 23:4-5
"Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless." -Ecclesiastes 5:10
"A good name is more desirable than great riches; to be esteemed is better than silver or gold." -Proverbs 22:1
"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land." -Deuteronomy 15:11
"Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have." -Hebrews 13:5
"You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the Lord is their refuge." -Psalm 14:6
"He who is kind to the poor lends to the Lord, and He will reward him for what he has done." -Proverbs 19:17
"A rich man may be wise in his own eyes, but a poor man who has discernment sees through him." -Proverbs 28:11
"A fortune made by a lying tongue is a fleeting vapor and a deadly snare." -Proverbs 21:6
"The wealth of the rich is their fortified city; they imagine it an unscalable wall." -Proverbs 18:11
...what Jesus were you thinking of?
Ok, and what we're saying is in none of those passages is Jesus saying to force people to hand over money using the government so that people can collect it in welfare; the difference between a nonprofit or giving someone who is homeless on the street $20, versus a government agency fining someone and forcing them to be taxed for whatever purpose the government may see fit
However, that is not to say Christians may not advocate for such a view (for government welfare), I would simply state it is not the "Christian position" that Jesus is positively requiring something like government welfare to exist
superfluous wealth (beyond one's needs) is morally the possession of the poor, in the theological tradition (although not one that is much talked about?) - hence you might advocate for wealthy people to give charitably under pain of present or future punishment by God (unless they feel they should retain such funds for some reason - some may need less than others, and some wealth is capital, like if a person owns a boat they can't break up the boat to feed people)
Care for the poor is a positive virtue, but welfare is simply forcing taxpayers to pay, and allows people to indiscriminately collect; it's not particularly moral or immoral, it's kind of amoral in a way (when abused, immoral?)
Thank you for this conversation, I think it is an important one to continue (I may be out for a bit, I could try to further elaborate on different passages if requested. Whether government or corporations or individuals are in charge of doing certain things, I do agree we should care for the poor for sure and would enjoy seeing more discussion of how to meet the needs of those in most need when possible)
I’m loving this; Jesus was also pro-taxes.
When asked by the Pharisees if it was right and just for Jews to pay taxes to Rome:
“Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God.”
Straight out of the gospel of Matthew
Again, this isn't Jesus being "pro-taxes" but for prudence: He was saying if people are going to force you to pay taxes, well what are you going to do? If you don't pay that makes you a criminal, so just to pay it to avoid trouble
Still no verses to back up your opinions on Jesus' teachings.
I find it odd, considering you put me on the spot. I had no issue delivering. Yet all you want to do is spout off your interpretations? You're not the messenger of God, son.
I dare say you are not the man of Christ you think you are.
I will remind you to take this up with your priest/pastor/father
I think you need to go back to Sunday School.
Go ask your priest if your interpretation is correct, not me. I've provided you verses, not an interpretation, though I think it's clear as day: feed those in need.
Let's pair it with a nice 'judge not, lest ye be judged' when it comes to whether or not 'those in need' meet your criteria of neediness.
yes, feeding those in need is the clear teaching; no, this is not necessarily through welfare and taxation
Jesus disagrees.
You're being selfish.
And all I'm hearing from you is your opinions, not seeing any verses backing them up. You're full of hot air, son.
Blame the corporation making and marketing crappy food, not the person addicted to eating it
Blame the rich men north of Richmond?
No! They're just making an honest dollar!
a lot of people oscillate in their arguments, like they wouldn't say it's ok a guy assaulted a woman just because she was wearing inappropriate clothing? but here personal responsibility for avoiding unhealthy food is not promoted?
You kind of sound like you’re arguing against yourself with your analogy. There is a at a minimum a degree of victim blaming when it comes to shaming people who are overweight. Food deserts exist, as does a massive marketing machine that promotes unhealthy food nonstop. Add the addiction aspect and no, I don’t assume someone is overweight solely because they lack conviction.
Could perhaps a charitable interpretation of the song be that there are some people on welfare who could work but choose not to (sloth) and choose to eat excessively when they could choose otherwise (gluttony), and that the musician is complaining about these specific people, and not people who may simply be overweight due to poisoning or unemployed due to bad luck?