this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
160 points (100.0% liked)

Gaming

30561 readers
99 users here now

From video gaming to card games and stuff in between, if it's gaming you can probably discuss it here!

Please Note: Gaming memes are permitted to be posted on Meme Mondays, but will otherwise be removed in an effort to allow other discussions to take place.

See also Gaming's sister community Tabletop Gaming.


This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

More concerning than Bethesda's decision to withhold early review codes from certain outlets is how heavily some sites are relying on the game to drive their business.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] jordanlund@lemmy.one 71 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's been probably 10 years or so since I was writing reviews, and I have to say, I never felt pressure to skew a review one way or another.

The biggest heat I got was from fanboys when I had a sneak peek at PAX of Duke Nukem Forever and had to report how shitty it was. "YOU DON'T KNOW!!! YOU DIDN'T PLAY THE WHOLE GAME!!! YOU HACK!!!"

And I was like "Yeah, you're right, I didn't play the whole game, I played what their marketing team WANTED me to play and it sucked, you think the parts they DIDN'T want me to play are going to be better?"

Surprise... the game stunk up the joint.

But when it came to reviewing games, I approached every review as if the game were a 10/10, and then as I played I looked for reasons to subtract or add points. The plusses and minuses would balance out and I'd have a final score.

As a former teacher, I used school grades, which is why I think most sites are on a 7-10 scale.

A - 90%+
B - 80%+
C - 70%+
D - 60%+
F - 59% and down.

A game can be bad because it's a bad game or it can be bad because it's functionally broken. D is generally the Ralph Wiggum of games, possible to like, but you have to admit it's pretty bad.

I had to give a failing review to Assassin's Creed Liberty on the Playstation Vita even though I really liked how it looked and it played, because it had a game breaking bug that made your save file unloadable. Ubi took 2 months to fix it, rendering it unplayable for the first two months after launch.

Once it was fixed, I amended the review, but it was plainly unacceptable to release it in a broken state like that.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What was the worst game that comes to mind from your time writing? I used to write album reviews for a metal site years ago and one of our writers got HIM’s latest album at the time. They really just didn’t like the album and I shit you not, the review garnered 1,000+ comments from pissed off fans. It got so out of hand, we had to close comments.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.one 31 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Had to be Duke Nukem Forever. I was talking with one of the devs and I was legit curious as to how their process worked because it had been in hell for so long...

"Were you able to use any of the original assets?"

"Oh, all of them!" He seemed super excited.

To use 14 year old assets and be incredibly proud of that? Eesh.

Oh, and Brink! Brink was so incredibly disappointing. They had this well developed world and a fantastic movement system, solid class based shooter... but then it all fell apart in the actual implementation of it.

I really, really, wanted to like Brink, but it was unplayable.

Say you have a level where the enemy is escorting a VIP and your goal is to eliminate the VIP before they get to the destination.

You roll in, wipe the team, wipe the VIP, then someone respawns, revives the VIP, and you keep going back and forth until the clock runs out.

It didn't matter how many times you killed the VIP, all that mattered was if they were alive or dead when the clock ran out. Win/lose. Just crap design.

[–] Kill_joy@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Brink... Sigh. I remember that trailer coming out and I watched it like every day for years waiting for it to come. I watched every dev vlog, read every update. For years I was hyped on that. At time of release my buddy and I took the week off of work. We played it for like 3 hours one night and finished it. I remember thinking "there must be a mistake. This can't be it. This isn't the game I've been dreaming about." I never booted it up again after that first night.

Brink was my CP2077.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.one 9 points 1 year ago

It's a shame, because if someone licensed the IP for, just spitballin' here... A Fallout/Outer Worlds style game, the bones are there for a REALLY good game.

The assets, art, backstory, it's all done, it just deserved a better developer. :(

[–] jossbo@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just in case you don't know, CP2077 is great now, and set to get better when the dlc drops soon.

[–] Klajan@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I really should go back to playing CP, I already enjoyed my time with the release Version.

But I also had a great PC and managed to not hit many Bugs during my playthrough, so I understand that my experience was not a common one.

[–] Harrison@ttrpg.network 3 points 1 year ago

I had a similar experience. Loved it then, like it even more now.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Kill_joy@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

I actually played through it last month and it blew me away. I cannot wait to do a second play through when phantom liberty comes out! It was so so good.

[–] Sternhammer@aussie.zone 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think Brink was game that killed my naive trust in the hype machine. So much anticipation, so much desperation to enjoy it, so much disappointment. From there on I only believed the hyperbole from proven developers but eventually Destiny killed even that. Now I’m a bitter shell of a gamer who lives by the creed, “never pre-order!”

load more comments (2 replies)

The first Brink patch made it quasi-playable, but the damage had already been done.

And even after they fixed it, the AI still stank. They'd just ran back in the exact same path sometimes; to the point that you could just aim at a point and headshot all of them.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 3 points 1 year ago

Man, DN4E sat in limbo forever. I remember waiting patiently for it knowing full well it would be a mess, but I didn’t care because I was such a massive Duke Nukem fan. Definitely on my list of bad games but I managed to complete it. It was so dated and clunky.

I vaguely remember Brink and all of the hype absolutely vanishing when it came out. I think I ended up skipping it because of the feedback people had.

Thanks for sharing!

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] sarsaparilyptus@beehaw.org 58 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"Decay"

What's left to decay? It's dust now. Remember when Eidos used a PR firm to strongarm websites into not publishing reviews of Tomb Raider: Underworld if they were less than an 8/10 till after launch?

"That's right. We're trying to manage the review scores at the request of Eidos." When asked why, the spokesperson said: "Just that we're trying to get the Metacritic rating to be high, and the brand manager in the US that's handling all of Tomb Raider has asked that we just manage the scores before the game is out, really, just to ensure that we don't put people off buying the game, basically."

That was 15 years ago, and despite the fact that Barrington Harvey went on to lie and pretend they never said that, everybody knew that kind of thing was old hat back then too. Mainstream gaming journalism is a captured industry.

[–] gaytswiftfan@beehaw.org 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

big published reviews don't mean anything to me and I'm surprised they do to most people. everything is an 8-10 out of 10. how do people not find an issue with that

[–] Nilz@sopuli.xyz 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The only conclusion to make is that the video game industry has matured to a point where only masterpieces are released. Bad games just don't exist anymore.

Right??

load more comments (1 replies)

Even gollum, by far the buggiest and most boring AAA game to come out in a few years was given a 64% by pc gamer. At least gamespot was honest and gave them a 2/10

[–] Mkengine@feddit.de 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Exactly, it feels like 50/100 is the baseline and 75/100 is mediocre. 75/100 tells me I have to be a fan of the genre to enjoy it. This rating inflation really shows how dependent reviewers are. This is one of the reasons I like organisations like Stiftung Warentest instead of depending on some biased product comparison blogs.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] mcforest@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I agree, but what are alternatives for people who want a written text?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] manapropos@lemmy.basedcount.com 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stuff like this is why I never buy new games. Not only can you not trust the critics, but players get so blinded by hype and buyers remorse that they’ll ignore everything bad about the games they love.

It’s always wiser to wait for the hype to die down and see what the retrospective consensus is

[–] YorddleZiggs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You also get fixed bugs, discounts and "all DLCs included" bundles. Welcome to c/patientgamers@lemmy.ml!

[–] lowleveldata@programming.dev 9 points 1 year ago

It's not like we'd be lack of games to play anyway (avoiding eye contact with my Steam library)

[–] sub_@beehaw.org 36 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Apparently Jeff Gerstmann received the review code quite a bit later than other publications. He said it's quite a ridiculous story that perhaps he would talk about it someday (his tone sounds like this is a story in the far future)

Jeff is ex (old) Gamespot, ex Giantbomb, and the guy who got fired from Gamespot due to external pressure from Eidos after he gave Kane and Lynch a 6 out of 10.

[–] regul@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

yeah but now he's just a guy in a spare bedroom with 4.5k patrons and under 40k youtube subscribers (of which I am one)

it's not that hard to blame game studios for not really thinking he's worth it anymore

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

More likely that they know he's probably not going to give it a glowing review, especially after Fallout 4, so he didn't get one. This is something many publishers have historically done. It keeps reviews higher at launch so that people looking at reviews or metacritic scores see more positive information than after the dust settles.

[–] Schaedelbach@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago

I mean, if you phrase it that way, sure. Just a dude in his spare room. But then again, aside from the fact that he makes probably 20 000 dollar a month alone from his Patreon, almost everyone who is interested in video games knows this man's name for way over a decade. More like two decades, actually. And while he certainly hasn't anywhere near the same visibility as he had at Gamespot or Giantbomb, way more of the people who do follow him, actually pay him money directly. Reach alone isn't what's important these days. And yet, Jeff still has the potential to influence a lot of people who do not directly give him money. He also has a podcast, he streams and has 170k follower on Twitter. And if he has a very contrarian take on something, it will get noticed. Maybe not as much as 15 years ago but still noticed.

A bit of a ramble, sorry! I guess it triggered some memories of me listening to Giantbomb with him, Ryan, Vinnie, Alex and Brad while going to work or cleaning the house. Bombcast was pretty much the first podcast I regularly listened to.

[–] all-knight-party@kbin.cafe 5 points 1 year ago

Yeah, Ive followed Jeff for a long time and he's absolutely not afraid to say a game isn't good, and his tastes can be fickle and particular, if I were a publisher cynically selecting who to send advance codes to to manufacture a good score he would not be one of them.

As a consumer, I love him because he has integrity, likes what he likes, and says what he means, and I even can tell sometimes when he dislikes a game that I'd still like.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] sculd@beehaw.org 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Its more like the problem of Neo-liberalism and hyper capitalism at this point.....

Journalism dying is just a by-product.

[–] sandriver@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago

Commercial media has always been collaborative with whatever power structures or industries it's associated with. Only good media is independent, and even then you get some really shitty journalists, and sometimes entire rotten publications.

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Is there any reason to follow game journalism outlets anymore? Reading some positive/negative Steam reviews and watching some gameplay footage on its own gives a really good impression of what a game is like IMO.

[–] Sused@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 year ago

I see you haven't been introduced to Yahtzee Croshaw and his Zero Punctuation series. Also, Steam reviews are full of bots.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I haven't followed professional outlets for a long time. It's pretty obvious most of them do not have enough time to give a proper review to these massive, 120+ hour long games. I used to read Computer Gaming World. Their reviewers would often mention that their rules required them to complete the game. Most of the reviews I see today, they don't even necessarily get the whole fuckin' game in their review copy. Just look at BG3.

Phenomenal game, with a solid story, incredible characters, fun game play, and just... Bugs. Lotta bugs. Especially after the first act. You might not even realize you are getting them because so many are that things that should happen, don't. The reviews for it clearly only covered the first, most polished act. And even then, they didn't actually mention bugs there and while it's the most polished, it is still far from perfect. As time goes on and more people push further into the game, now those same review outlets put out editorials reporting on players bitching about the bugs on social media. Things that should have been covered in their own official reviews in the first damn place.

If all they're going to do is write a bunch of bullshit they were likely paid to say, and then rely on users to generate more "news" content for them, I'm just going to stick with going straight to other players. There are still plenty that think for themselves and give honest, detailed descriptions of the game while trying to limit their personal opinions and bias. I want to be told how the thing actually is and make my own mind up based on my opinions; reviews can be objective.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] CleoTheWizard@beehaw.org 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ratings. Are. Stupid.

When it comes to movies and audience scores, sure, look at the rotten tomatoes score or whatever. But everyone should realize that the average score of EVERY CRITIC is just going to be a useless number.

Not only that but reviewers who represent entire companies like the people at IGN and elsewhere aren’t giving an honest opinion. I know this because a few of them have given their honest opinion before. They got fired for low scores.

This is the reason that I enjoy watching reviews from people like ACG or SkillUp. They don’t need to give a score because their opinion isn’t a number. Enjoyability isn’t a number. Both of those reviewers enjoy games slightly different than I do, but when I watch their reviews I get a sense of if I will enjoy them.

Seriously if you go to outlets who give scores on games commonly, stop. Very little time is put into choosing these numbers and they reflect nothing about enjoying a game for you personally. Go watch a review from ACG or SkillUp. Outlets like IGN or PCGamer can’t hold a candle to these guys.

[–] Lowbird@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They could easily all be giving their honest opinion at IGN: if the reviewers who tend to like everything are the ones who don't get fired, the output of mostly positive (or sometimes groupthink negative) reviews would be the same, even if individual reviewers never lied.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] saigot@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I don't understand the purpose of big company reviewers (for subjective stuff like media at least). If I'm watching a smaller reviewer my goal is figure out their tastes so I can ignore the criticisms that I know don't bother me, and pay very close attention to where their tastes align with mine. Like if dunky calls a game buggy or slow paced, that's probably more a positive than a negative, but if he says the controls are clunky, I'll probably agree. ACG tends to like games that are less mechanically adventious and easy compared to what I like, and we have evry different tastes in storylines, but he's a really good barometer for sound and graphics.

If kotaku or whatever releases a review it's really hard for me to understand whose voice I'm getting, so the review is pretty useless, how do I know if the guy calling the game a challenge is that infamous cuphead reviewer or a guy that has been beating dark souls since he was 4.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.one 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have a hard time when people complain about loading screens. I've been gaming since the 70s guys, let me tell you about load times:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_Datasette

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starpath_Supercharger

You'd start loading a game from tape and then you might as well go have dinner with your family because it would be 30 to 60 minutes before you could play.

Or, it could hit a loading error 5 minutes after you walked away and now you have to start all over again...

[–] Neato@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I bet you'd complain about your new car having roll up windows or no ac. Times have changed and we can do better. Especially with their budget and 6 years. It's pathetic.

[–] BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

yeah the half a second to 2 second loading screens are horrible. any game with loading screens i immideately uninstall

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Tutunkommon@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Also, the Commodore 1541 floppy drive had a serial transfer rate of 2 bytes per second. Nothing loaded quickly in the 80's either.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] rivingtondown@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Same here,

Unfortunately most of the folks in gaming media that I follow don't write or produce proper "reviews" anymore. Reading a review from IGN or Gamespot... I don't know anything about the reviewer so I take it with a grain of salt. Like with Starfield, I give the same weight to IGN giving it a 7 as I do with some no-name whatever tiny website I never heard of giving it a 9.5

Just have to read through the reviews. If someone docks the game for not letting you fly manually between solar systems like you do in Elite Dangerous then I just have to write-off the negativity because... of-course fucking not, did anyone expect that? With something like, the repeated knocks against the barren nature of the procedural generation leading to repetitive tedious travel - I take that more seriously, because it was something I was hoping they would have addressed when moving that direction. Something like the story sucking or the NPCs having cringey dialogue is completely subjective and means nothing without knowing the reviewer's tilt.

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago (8 children)

If someone docks the game for not letting you fly manually between solar systems like you do in Elite Dangerous then I just have to write-off the negativity because… of-course fucking not, did anyone expect that?

I think a lot of people expected that. This is the see-that-mountain-you-can-go-there studio.

[–] all-knight-party@kbin.cafe 4 points 1 year ago

Expecting anything that particularly in-depth without being shown explicit pre-release footage of it is an expectation trap. Bethesda was never going to make a space sim, any space sim features are a bonus and were far from guaranteed.

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] stopthatgirl7@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This article made a damn good point about how much gaming websites depend on guides now. It hasn’t really clicked until now with me. I follow a bot on Mastodon that posts new articles from a bunch of different gaming sites, and it seems like half of them are for guides and walkthroughs. That’s where they get their ad bucks from, so that and SEO are the big focus.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

It’s Microsoft’s problem now. LOL

[–] kresten@feddit.dk 6 points 1 year ago

I feel like this is an article without a real story. Or at least it didn't succeed in finding the story

[–] PenguinTD@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

I wrote reviews(early 2000) during the late magazine era and even back then there were taboos about local influential company's releases.(they only sign import deal and sell/distribute games locally.) Cause they survive on the ad money instead of subscription or individual purchases. Modern website sucks even more cause you made pennies for each view and if you don't have something that covers enough contents to drive views, you will be at the mercy of promotion partners, same for the youtuber/streamer/influencer.

I mostly write review/walk through for import games, as there was usually a couple months delay for localization, even had contacts with local publisher that consult with group of writers about maybe which game to sign and import. The US/Japan publisher aren't exactly nice guys you know, they will ask you to sign multiple games, including the games you know might not sell well as part of the deal. It's a risky business and if companies that import games will try to influence review scores, you know how desperate the publisher will try to defend their "investment".

load more comments
view more: next ›