This feels like some alt-right anti EV car propaganda
this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
194 points (88.5% liked)
Memes
45887 readers
1154 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
To me it looks like a training excercise. Electric car fires are different from ICE fires
Or, reality. Wait till things really start getting hot globally and the battery manufacturing is sold to the lowest bidder for more ceo profit. I personally have no issues with Evs, but knowing how batteries fail..Esh..it's a very spicy pillow
Wait until you find out how a tank of gasoline fails
Fire departments across the US have the tools and chemicals on hand to deal with a gasoline fires.
Electric cars are fairly new (that Baker from 1910 doesn't count, because it had lead-acid batteries and nobody drives one) and aren't as common as ICE cars, so fire departments haven't all caught up. Outside of huge cities I imagine a fire department doesn't have the equipment to deal with a battery fire.
Yeah fair enough, hopefully with time this will be less of an issue
Just spray it with water!
The tank doesn't just explode when it fails..still needs ignition but ok
Batteries don't explode either. It's just a really hard to extinguish fire.
They can spontaneously combust, so near close to explode.
Wait until you see a gas tank spontaneously combust (you won't). The same way you won't see a gas tank explode when overfilling it or puncturing it.
Have you never heard of the Ford Pinto
Except you totally would. If you punctured a gas tank, it'll get gasoline on hot components that'll cause it to ignite.
Do you think the gas tank is IN the engine bay or something? The hottest thing underneath a gas tank might be the exhaust... The ignition temp of gas is something like 500F/260C... Without spark... it's not going to happen just out of the blue. An Exhaust CAN get that hot.. But under most normal uses, basically all normal cars won't get that hot (racecars and other "performance cars" probably will get hotter than the ignition temp of Gasoline).
I was thinking in terms of a crash or a huge object intrusion. That'll be pushing all sorts of things to places they're not supposed to go, such as hot break pads or even parts of the other car.
Just like in normal operation you wouldn't be able to catch a gas tank on fire by puncturing it, you wouldn't get a puncture on a battery either in normal operation. It's the extreme crash scenarios you need to worry about. Both batteries and gasoline are very energy dense and potentially dangerous. And both have a lot of mitigation strategies to keep them from being a hazard. Batteries aren't inherently lots more dangerous like the original comment seemed to be implying.
you wouldnβt get a puncture on a battery either in normal operation.
Batteries at this point are almost universally the base of the car... It's not hard for debris on the road to kick up and puncture the underside of a car.
A fuel tank would simply leak it all out... Unless there was a spark. A battery cell being exposed to air will self-immolate. It all depends on how it's packaged... Which we're learning in the Florida hurricane here... They're not that well packaged...
That's why they have a thick belly pan. It's all mitigation.
There is nothing hot under the gas tank. Just the exhaust, which is not hot enough to ignite the gas. Also, the car in the picture seems like it was stationary. Please tell me, how anything in a combustion engine vehicle could be hot enough after about an hour.
load more comments
(1 replies)
All but the highest end EVs will likely switch to a LiFePO4 battery chemistry, this chemistry is much more stable under destructive conditions and are less prone to combustion and thermal runaway.
And the only penalty is about a 10% energy density loss. The chemistry also charges / discharges on a very flat curve, which means it's not sufficient to monitor voltage levels and temperature to know the current charge state, you have to also monitor power-in / out and time and make a best guess, which requires semi regular calibration.
The upside is that you can always charge to 100% and it has almost triple (I think) duty cycles compared to traditional liOn
I have issues with EVs. People are acting like this is the cure for climate change when they're almost as bad for the environment as conventional cars when you include the environmental cost of manufacturing and the energy mix of the grid that powers them.
Why can't we be sensible and invest in trains, trams, subways and bicycle infrastructure rather than engaging in techno-fetishism?
Um they are not almost as bad as ICE vehicles. Even including emissions during manufacturing it still only takes a handful of years for most EVs to be more environmentally friendly than an ICE vehicle.
Exactly. It depends on your local energy mix, but I think it's better after like 4 years worst case scenario. Here's a video we with more info. https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM?si=tNZr23eRFk41jQ7a
Cars will still have more emissions than busses or trains, especially electric, so we should invest in those.
It takes at least decade for the carbon from manufacturing to be offset by the lack of emissions from the evβs daily operation.
Assuming zero carbon electricity generation used in the ev. Local electricity mix will adjust that number up.
If you really want to have a bad time: we donβt have enough lithium to replace even half the cars currently on the road, not counting all the other uses for it aside from ev batteries.
The only two ways out of this are fewer cars or fewer people. When someone suggests the latter path, be sure to ask them who and why.
It depends on your local energy mix, but I think it's better after like 4 years worst case scenario. Here's a video we with more info. https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM?si=tNZr23eRFk41jQ7a
Cars will still have more emissions than busses or trains, especially electric, so we should invest in those.
load more comments
(7 replies)
This is already happening in Florida after the hurricane flooded some Teslas. Apparently lithium ion batteries don't like salt water.
An aside: I support EVs and a renewable future. It's important that we acknowledge and address these issues in this early stage of adoption. Also, call your senator and have them support the Motorcycle Parity Act so I can afford a Livewire S2.
Unlike gas cars, which never start on fire.
EVs are a lot harder to put out
Unlike gas cars, which every single fire department in the US has been dealing with for over 100 years, electric cars need different equipment to put them out. Not all fire departments have the stuff on hand for battery fires. In 20 years this will probably change.
Please try to ignore the facts and pretend like it's not significantly harder to contain a fucking gas fire and significantly less dangerous. Disingenuous bullshit.
load more comments
(6 replies)
Lil guys just trying to keep warm, dont hate
As someone who doesn't understand a thing about cars, and evs in particular- wat? Do they combust spontaneously?
EVs donβt combust spontaneously. If the battery of an EV is compromised or battery pack is pierced and lithium is exposed to air. Then that violent reaction (lithium oxidizing the air) will produce the fire you see.
I think this is from a training exercise though. Suspiciously empty lot. Some branding on vehicle might indicate test site. The idea here is that by covering the vehicle with the fire resistant blanket, the fire will consume all of the oxygen and eventually put it self out.
No. In fact they are typically quite safe but there are some edge cases that pop up given the size and power of the batteries. E.g. Recently it was reported in Florida that some EVs had similar battery issues as a result of hurricanes flooding them with salt water. Thats not a normal occurrence. It makes sense that salt water and batteries arenβt totally simpatico, but more importantly for this to happen you had to leave your car by the ocean in a hurricane, not a spontaneous thing.
Conversely I had a friend driving a brand new ford fiesta and one of the front wheels just came off at speed on the highwayβ¦
I can see flooded EVs susceptible to electric shorting. But I havenβt read or seen any reports of combustion simply due to exposure from salt water. Maybe those vehicles were pierced by some object during hurricane?
Do you have a source?
Also modern ICE vehicles not immune to electrical shortages due to heavy water exposure. Most if not all have ECUs and other electronic equipment that is sensitive to water exposure.
It's fairly common for ocean-front condos in Florida to have parking garages that are below sea level. If the surf rises enough to breach the seawall then it will flood the garage levels and not the condos where people are likely sheltering. This is most likely where those Teslas were parked, so it's unlikely that they were subjected to the hurricane force winds.
No, they do not spontaneously combust. They just burn differently. They electrolytically produce very large quantities of flammable vapors and oxidizers. Because they are not entirely reliant on atmospheric oxygen, it is extraordinarily difficult to extinguish them.
It takes 10+ times as much water to extinguish a battery fire as an equivalent petro-fuel fire.
view more: next βΊ