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privacy

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A bit of a rant, but what to do about new smartphones? (lemmy.ca)
submitted 1 week ago by Showroom7561@lemmy.ca to c/privacy@lemmy.ca
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Samsung has gone hard promoting AI in their phones, and now OnePlus has also announced some heavy AI-based features in their new Android OS. Pretty much every other brand is now doing the same, so you can't escape it.

I've been in the market to upgrade my nearly 6-year-old phone, but seeing all these AI features, especially when they rely on Google's Gemini (or other cloud AI), and it feels deflating.

Will privacy ultimately have to be sacrificed "from now on"?

By not using these AI features, you pay a lot for features you won't be using. And the usefulness of the device becomes limited as nearly all functions now have AI-based components to them.

I'm totally fine with on-device AI, but many features I'm seeing don't seem to be on-device, and I've spent years trying to stop sending my data to companies like Google. I don't want to go backwards for the sake of market trends.

What are your future plans when it comes to smartphones?

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[–] doyun@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

I'm guessing this is going to be an unpopular take here. Earlier this year I got a Xiaomi and have had a great experience.

I was getting frustrated with my s10's battery life. I've replaced phone batteries before but always end up cracking the glass shortly after. So this time I spent around 300 usd on a Redmi note 13 pro. It seemed like a hassle to flash but I was able to get rid of all the bloatware via adb. The benchmarks are comparable to the S10 and with my settings the battery easily lasts 2 days (unless I play games). It also has a flat screen and a 3.5mm jack. No Bixby button.

I don't know the security implications of buying a Chinese phone but I have solved all my complaints about my previous Samsung phones by switching.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'm sorry to tell you, but it's not a market trend. This is the way it will be from now on.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago

I'm realizing that. The enshittifcation of smartphones has been rapidly developing, and there's no going back to how it used to be. I've been a smartphone/PDA user from way back when black and white Palm Pilots were a thing... even before that when you had calculators that basically stored addresses, notes, etc.

Those were truly tools back then. No time wasted on the device, and no distractions when using them.

Now? Companies can give away their phones and still make millions off the data harvesting. The marketing of "AI" just makes it easier for them to get users to share even more data.

[–] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 38 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Pixel and GrapheneOS, or any device compatible with CalyxOS.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 week ago (4 children)

To be quite honest, after Google screwed me over with their Pixelbook (firmware broke touchscreen, and they basically told me to buy a new one), I will not give Google money for their hardware.

I also generally dislike Pixel phones for a number of reasons. This sucks :(

[–] yonder@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 days ago

You could also get a second hand device on the DivestOS compatibility list.

[–] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I didn't give them money for my Pixel. I used AdNauseam, cost them over $2,000 in advertising losses, and then bought one.

Trollface.

[–] TheButtonJustSpins@infosec.pub 15 points 1 week ago

Getting it secondhand also doesn't give them any money.

[–] Nils@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

If you don't mind old hardware, get it refurbished from Amazon. You can get pixel 7 for 400 CAD, sometimes less. Amazon quality control is better than ebay, so was the support.

My biggest problem is with the camera of all mobiles, the photo looks good because there is a lot of processing in the background, and it becomes very apparent how the hardware is bad when you take pictures with an aftermarket OS.

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 week ago

You can sideload the google camera app and restrict any online access to it on graphene.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

I tend to buy flagships because I know they'll last me many years without worrying about the hardware being too outdated.

But then updates stop, and the batteries need to be replaced... that's kind of where I'm at now. Seeing that OEMs now offer at least 5 years of major Android OS updates, I'd at least be covered there.

But man, are they all pushing hard for these AI features. Like I said, I'd be totally fine if these were all on-device AI features, but I really don't want Google getting their filthy hands on my data through Gemini.

[–] N4CHEM@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Then look for a phone that supports CalyxOS, DivestOS, iodéOS... unlike GrapheneOS they support more models than just Pixels.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

Then look for a phone that supports CalyxOS, DivestOS, iodéOS

Just had a quick look. It seems like none support newer phones. The non-pixel phones listed are things like Fairphone (not available in Canada) or Oneplus 6 (literally 7 generations old).

I used to only flash custom ROMs back in the day, but even then, top-tier Samsung phones could handle them easily.

[–] ohellidk@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

but you'd have to unlock bootloader, first.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yup. Read/watch the process for whatever phones you're considering before buying.

I flashed GrapheneOS on a Pixel 8, and it was super easy.

[–] ohellidk@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I mean, its gotta be easier than flashing lineage and all the google crap, then spoofing the play integrity. that's what I have now and its starting to become kind of unsustainable with google messing with it every week.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What's easier?

And you can nearly completely avoid Google Play if you install through Aurora. Most of my apps come from F-Droid, with a handful from Aurora, and I have a separate profile for apps that require Google Play. It's surprisingly usable.

[–] ohellidk@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

that's pretty cool

[–] half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Vote people into office who support data privacy, consumer rights, increased reasonableness for eulas, and things like requiring opt-in by default for these new products.

[–] Lemming421@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I mean, cool, but which phone should OP be looking at right now?

[–] half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Dumb phone, kind that plays snake only

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago

I flashed GrapheneOS on a Pixel 8, and I'm hoping my next phone will run straight Linux (so something like PinePhone Pro).

If you don't want GrapheneOS (I get it, the lead dev is a bit of a douche), there are other alternative Android ROMs you could check out, such as CalyxOS, DivestOS, and LineageOS. They all have different focuses, benefits, and drawbacks, though each of them is probably better for privacy vs whatever comes stock on your device.

I'm unwilling to use a phone that shares data with the manufacturer, hence why I use alternative Android ROMs.

[–] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago

Get a Google Pixel and install GrapheneOS on it.

It is crazy that they are so hated that this is not common knowledge.

I am already on Android 15, it just works.

[–] i_am_not_a_robot@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Samsung "Advanced Intelligence" has a "Process data only on device" setting:

For added privacy, process data for advanced intelligence features on your device instead of online. Online processing of data provides the best results and is required for some advanced intelligence features.

Other AI features provided by Google or other apps may not honor it.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

That's great to know. I've used flagship Samsung phones for over a decade, but they are out of my budget these days.

The Oneplus 13 is on my radar, but I'll need to find out how private I can make the OS before I commit to anything.

[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

What are your future plans when it comes to smartphones?

Same as my current plans: I pick a smartphone that runs a privacy-friendly OS, and only use privacy-friendly apps.

Right now, that's a de-googled Android phone running LineageOS, with F-Droid as the only app store. In future, it might be something else, like a non-Android Linux phone. My current model is 6+ years old, still gets OS updates, and still works great, so I imagine the open-source options will have improved by the time I need to replace it.

I care about things like data exfiltration, battery life, cost, and hardware longevity (important for minimising e-waste). I don't care about AI unless it happens to impact one of those things, but since there's nothing inherent to AI that does, the issue of whether a phone has AI capabilities is irrelevant.

By not using these AI features, you pay a lot for features you won’t be using.

Only if you're an early adopter. Like all new tech, further research and production volume will make it relatively cheap.

[–] _bcron_@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I'm not big into phones and basically want a browser so I use refurb iPhone SE. <200 bucks, decent processor, wireless charging, IP-whatever waterproof, no gimmicky bullshit.

I actually bought a spare and use a quadlock-like case and just use that one as a ghetto dashcam lol

I mean if you're cool about sending data to Apple it's worth a look

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

If you don't need the best camera, or most modern speed, but you like Samsung's UI/ecosystem, I was sold on the Samsung Galaxy Xcover 6 Pro. Removable battery, microSD slot, 3.5mm jack, 5 buttons (vol+/-, power, top function, side function).

I dunno how well alternative Android OSes and services are supported on it so you're on your own there. My recollection is that for most modern phones support for alternative OSes just isn't great.

[–] BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Fairphone + iodeOS. You can buy it with it preinstalled, so no fiddeling with the bootloader if you dont want to

[–] Pandemanium@lemm.ee 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I've been thinking about trying a Fairphone next but I'm worried about how well their suite of apps function (especially maps), being able to install regular marketplace apps, and whether I'd still be able to fly my drone with it. Also I'd still have to use Gmail for work, so would that defeat the purpose of having a degoogled phone?

[–] BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de 1 points 6 days ago

Organuc Maps and Osmand are working well for me. Using Gmail with K9 Mail for example would still work, but you should definitely not use the Gmail App (which probably wont even work) Installing Google Play apps works flawlessly worh aurora, but In App purchases and payed apps are not supported

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Not im Canada, unfortunately. That would have been one of my first choices because of the reparability.

[–] BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That is unfortunate... And you really can't import it?

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Technically, sure. But no warranty, and parts would be a nightmare to get, which would defeat the purpose of a repairable phone. 😮‍💨

[–] BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de 1 points 6 days ago

Yeah true.... :/

[–] Nils@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

A friend suggested me Sailfish OS, sadly it only supports Xperia, and Sony does not make phones that attend the frequency where I live.

My next "phone" will be a pocket computer with a data chip. For the last 20 years, I only received phone calls from solicitors/scammers.

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 0 points 1 week ago

privacy went out way before ai with smartphones.

[–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Just got an iPhone 16 Pro Max 512GB after using my XS Max for over six years. I probably won’t use the AI features when they are implemented, but I do appreciate that they’re only on-device.

Other than that, I love everything about it, it’s perfect. The cameras take incredible low-light pictures of my cats, 120hz is incredible, and the battery lasts AGES. Zero complaints.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Oh man, as much as I'd love the hardware of an iPhone 16 Pro Max, I just can't go back to Apple. On my Android phone, I use mostly FOSS apps, and self-host a lot of stuff that just works fine for me on Android.

But I do appreciate that Apple at least makes it a point to repeatedly say that data is kept on the device and that AI is done on-board.

These other manufacturers are so vague, that you have to assume it's being processed in the cloud (even if it's not).

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

If you went Android to go FOSS, why not just install a FOSS OS? As far as I know, none of the popular ones are pushing server-side tech right now.

https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago

The biggest problem is that most of those rely on older phones or phones that aren't necessarily top-tier.

At some point, support for all newer phones will likely be very limited, so what's the community going to do then? Keep using old phones?

[–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago

For your use case, Android definitely makes a lot more sense! I don’t use a lot of software overall when I’m not working, just a couple Linux boxes for Pi-Hole, my server, computer games, browsers, VLC, and occasional stuff (recording in Audacity, Foobar2000, etc) so an iPhone works great for me. I mainly only use my phone for Lemmy, browser stuff, stocks, and taking an irresponsible amount of pictures of my cats and my partner n’ me.

There’s no reason I REALLY need a phone this expensive but I rarely ever buy anything so I figured I’d treat myself since I’ll prolly have this for another six years!