this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
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[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Pretty sure people are gonna die regardless of which genocidal wacko is elected.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 7 points 5 days ago (16 children)

People are going to die no matter what. It'll be different amounts though. One of the two has called for Israel to "finish the job" and constantly talks about how he likes what they're doing. The other condemns it, but is criticized that the administration isn't doing enough, which is fair, but also I know who I'd want to win if I lived in Gaza. I don't think the people there care how good you feel about "keeping your hands clean" and acting morally superior. They want to live, while these people want to play games.

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[–] n_emoo@lemmy.ca 9 points 6 days ago (71 children)

Let me take a stab at this. As a non American non voter who is interested in the outcome of the election.

There are 3 parties to this discussion: the Harris campaign (Democrats in general), the Gaza issue voter, and the lesser evil voters.

The Gaza issue voters clearly believe a genocide is occuring, sometimes affecting them personally, and funded by their tax dollars. They would like some concessions from the Dems (the only likely party to take any action) and their only bargaining chip is their vote. It is clear to me that, if a large number of Americans felt strongly and this way, action would happen.

The Harris campaign has been non responsive on this issue, trying to tread the thin line, where they not only look powerless politically, but also unwilling to take a moral stand for what is right.

The lesser evil voters are absolutely correct that she is still better than Trump, and in more ways than just Middle east.

What I think all 3 parties need to do:

The lesser evil camp, instead of mocking the hold outs, needs to pressure the Harris campaign to make a change. Maybe even join them! (See the last point)

The Harris campaign, needs to think long and hard about what they stand for, and the implications of the Republican-lite gamble paying off. There needs to be some fear of losing voters who they cannot take for granted as they shift to the right.

Finally the Gaza voters. Its fine to play the game of chicken, keep screaming as loud as you can demanding change, but ultimately (secretly) get to the ballot and vote D.

[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago (2 children)

There's a reason the Democrats always end up tilting right and trying to court some moderate Republicans. There's a reason Harris is spending her efforts trying to pick off some moderate Republicans in the suburbs rather than trying to appease the hard left.

The problem with the hard left voters is that they are fickle and contrarian by nature. Yes, they're talking about Palestine this year, but that's just the cause of the day. The truth is, many on the left will simply look for any excuse not to sully their precious clean hands by voting for a mainstream liberal party. They look for an excuse, any excuse will do. And every four year, they find one. For Kamala it's Gaza. For Biden it was the Crime Bill. For Hillary it was Bernie. There's always some grievance the far left reactionaries will find, their precious excuse not to be one of the normies and vote for the mainstream candidate. They're professional contrarians to the core. They start with the end goal - be a cool outsider above the sludge of normal average politics. And then they work backwards from there. Gaza is simply the cause of the day.

Note, this doesn't happen with the far right. The far right instead recognizes that it's better to support the mainstream right party, but to work continuously to pull them further and further to the extreme. This strategy is why they've been far more successful than the far left. The far right holds their nose, votes for the mainstream candidate, and works to pull the party further to the right in the future. The far left stamps their feet, demands perfection, and takes their ball and goes home. They always find an excuse to not participate. Ultimately, they just want to be the cool kids that are too cool to participate in the normie fight. They will always find an excuse not to support the Democratic candidate. They're petulant children, not voters candidates can actually appeal to.

This is why Dems always pander to the right. It's simply a better strategy. Far left voters are fickle, unreliable, and will always invent a new purity test. They're ultimately politically irrelevant, and they have no one but themselves to blame.

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