Conversations like this are why I want more people, especially "normies", in the Fediverse : fediverse

[–] Fizz 85 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The thing is that "normies"(I hate the term) weren't on reddit when it was the size of lemmy. The only experience they have is joining it after it had 10 years of development reached critical mass of users.

So we are stuck being compared to an impossible standard. When I compare Lemmy to old reddit lemmy hands down blows it out of the water. Old reddit had cp and racism on the front page every single day for years.It was hard to use and hostile to new users.

I've seen lemmy pop up in search engine posts already which was cool to see. Ive also seen lots of high quality intelligent posts granted they are only tech related but we will grow.

[–] nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 22 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I tried to use Reddit for years and absolutely hated it. Finally after virtually every internet search for any question i had lead need too Reddit I decided to aquire a taste for it.

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[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

I guess that's a fair point, but I'd rather shoot for what's good instead of settle for "better than terrible".

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[–] Anon518@sh.itjust.works 30 points 1 day ago (1 children)

we can get random experts chiming in about interesting topics in an organic way

In my experience, many of the people claiming to be experts on reddit are spreading misinformation. This goes for Twitter too, and probably most other large social media sites. People love to be seen as an authority on a topic.
Reddit is anything but organic, and is getting worse and worse in this regard.

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 5 points 21 hours ago

Yeah, reddit is corporate plastic these days. Fake, cheap, unhealthy.

[–] 4shtonButcher@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I see people in that thread recommending to avoid lemmy.ml - what’s up with that?!?

[–] Mjpasta710@midwest.social 26 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (2 children)

If you're asking in good faith.... Most of lemmy.ml is a tankie echo chamber that silences or outright bans any dissenting discussion.

Try bringing up the facts surrounding Russia, China, Cuba, or North Korea...

Only lies and good vibes for tankies are permitted.

[–] cowpattycrusader@thelemmy.club 9 points 18 hours ago

I did not know this and posted a serious question on a thread dismissing starvation under Stalin as fake news. Ban was swift and responses were brutal. I thought it was just isolated trolling at the time.

[–] 4shtonButcher@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 19 hours ago

Thanks, I honestly didn’t know! I’ve only really adopted Lemmy for almost daily use a few weeks back and mostly read tech related stuff and it’s been blissfully apolitical for the most part. Some of it is on .ml - I now understand the issue and will look out for it/support communities on other instances where possible.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

!newtolemmy@lemmy.ca has a dedicated thread

[–] 4shtonButcher@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I honestly cannot find it. I find that Hexbear and Lemmigrad are frowned upon (hadn’t previously encountered them), but I actually find a few recommendations about Lemmy.ml. And many of my own subs are from there. I’d really like to understand!

[–] vonbaronhans@midwest.social 2 points 12 hours ago

The hexbear folks were the worst. Like, putting all of their political opinions aside, they would just swarm posts and flood it with low quality buzzwords and memes and every formatting option to be as visually obnoxious as possible.

I don't know if I blocked them, they blocked me, or if my instance defederated from then, but holy shit my Lemmy experience got so much better when I stopped seeing their shit everywhere.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Third post on that community: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/21703037

On the same topic: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/23836769

[–] 4shtonButcher@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Huh, interesting! Thanks a lot! I guess I’ll keep reading the communities on lemmy.ml but avoid joining more. And if I ever encounter the issues described I hope I’ll find similar communities elsewhere. So far everything on Lemmy is so much better than in any other platforms that I’m quite happy.

[–] snugglesthefalse@sh.itjust.works 3 points 14 hours ago

Yeah, one nice thing is that you can remove the problem communities and you see a lot less of them

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 8 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Lemmy.ml is actively spreading malicious authoritarian propaganda, better to just avoid it

[–] vxx@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

I sometimes wonder if they get more power to do harm, if people that are aware just block them instead of using their votes while staying outside.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There was a list of alternatives communities to lemmy.ml: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/16923582

[–] 4shtonButcher@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 19 hours ago

Thanks!

[–] MimicJar@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

we can get random experts chiming in about interesting topics

Lol we have that now... just be sure to phrase your question in the form of a Linux distro.

But to be serious I do think we're heading that way, but it's going to take a long time, likely as long as it took Reddit (if not longer).

[–] andrew_s@piefed.social 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That comment chain demonstrates a real appeal of Reddit. Even for something like a post-episode TV discussion, a critical mass of people means that not only can you have the discussion in the first place, but there might be some extra info from someone who worked on the set, or attended an audience taping.

You can click to see the rest of the comments to see plenty wrong with Reddit too, but it's not like there's any particular drive to prevent the elements of Reddit culture that I find annoying from coming to Lemmy too.

I'd be surprised if there's ever a critical mass of people on a federated app though. If there is, it's more likely to be on something with the proper funding, that hides the details from regular users (e.g
it'll be BlueSky, not Mastodon). On Reddit, Lemmy has a reputation for being too complicated, for the mundane reason that is. Too much stuff that should happen doesn't, and the answer to why are the stuff that 'normies' don't want to hear (LW and PD instances are both a bit unstable atm), or they're so unintuitive that that they'll need answering forever (e.g everything around discussion languages, instance blocks, newly-discovered communities , etc etc).

I've just seen a user accidentally submit the same post to the same community multiple times (the worst I've seen is 4 times). Preventing that is some real 'web dev 101' shit. Federated apps can be an interesting hobby for inexperienced devs (like me), and mildly diverting for anyone who wants to use them as a user, but a critical mass of users?! Forget about it.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

All the others will get bought out and enshittified. The future is not there.

The Fediverse has the potential to be the future. It's gated behind open sourceheads not being all...open-sourcey about. Making it clunky to use and badly designed and then pulling the establishment economist "you poor schlub you're just too dumb to get it" card, thereby shooting their own efforts in the foot.

If they can make it open source AND easy to use/intuitive/well designed, then we have a solid future. If not, the future still won't be those other places.

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[–] Blaze@feddit.org 21 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

an organic way.

Not sure if that defines current reddit if you have a look at /r/TheoryOfReddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1gdpeyp/this_bot_thing_is_dystopian_bot_copied_my_post/

On the other hand, I found this interesting thread on !houseplants@mander.xyz today: https://lemmy.world/post/21385568?scrollToComments=true

Feel free to have a look at !newcommunities@lemmy.world for niche communities

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago (3 children)

It's not just about the communities. We push communities a lot, and we do need more communities. But fundamentally we need a lot more PEOPLE.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (7 children)

Exactly! Yes!

I get downvoted everytime I point out that a healthy network comes with users. Lots of users. Users of all kinds. Users you don't agree with. Users you do agree with. I said that the userbase of threads being on Lemmy would be a culture clash, but it would be a sign of a growing fediverse concept.

Everyone else says if the threads users federated with Lemmy, they would personally block the instance. Which just shows how much of a bubble the people here want to live in.

I work at an airport. You will never see a more diverse group of people from a bigger selection of places than at an international airport. I don't agree with all of them. I don't agree with the majority of them. But I can converse with them. I can make small talk for 10 minutes.

I treat the fediverse as I treat the real world. I wouldn't look at these people and say "You're banished from my existence for having conflicting politic or religious beliefs! Begone from my presence! You do not deserve to exist in my world!"

But thats how people here treat "outsiders" or "normies".

I want the fediverse concept to grow. I want the idea of a concept that's immune to corporate ownership by design to BE normalized.

Because right now, it's a niche interest that 98% of people have never heard of. Corporations want to keep it that way.....if they've even heard of the Fediverse. They might to be too busy exploiting labor, and polluting the planet with their private jets and resource sucking plants located in places that already have water shortages.

Yes I'm talking to you Nestle, and you Starbucks CEO. I don't know how this comment turned into a rant against them specifically, but fuck Nestle, and fuck Starbucks.

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[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 10 points 1 day ago (3 children)

We are far too unwelcoming to normies currently. Many people on Reddit reporting coming here to check it out only to not enjoy it and remain there.

100% of every single person that I've ever told about Lemmy irl gives me grief about how politically extremist it is. Like not just "no thank you, if you don't mind" but "FUCK NO, WHY WOULD YOU SHOW ME THIS!?". I mean, I'm no lover of capitalism but... if we want normies, we have to make this place more palatable. The likes of Facebook, X, and Reddit are grandfathered into the public consciousness - like it or not, convincing someone to come here is basically meaning to leave there, if only for part of each day (which Mbin is strongly helping with, by also conjoining Mastodon with Lemmy).

As an experiment, go to Lemmy.ml and sort by Local. The very top post is currently this one: https://lemmy.ml/post/21925926. This does not make me feel welcomed, being a citizen of the USA. Mind you, I get that there is a certain degree of "Truthiness" to it - especially if you ignore all of the thousands of years of history that predated the very "discovery" of this Western-most continent (even by Leif Erickson) - but true or not, it turns people away. An admin account even specifically decries people not liking it:

Judging by the downvotes, a lot of Lemmitors have no idea how the world works. Just living in the Marvel Cinematic Universe—must be nice.

So, this post isn't going to be removed anytime soon, although beware of downvoting it - you might be kicked out of all communities that exist on that instance, including those you've never so much as heard of existing (yes that's a real thing, see MANY cases described in MANY communities across the Fediverse, e.g. !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com).

Note I did not cherry pick that example. That is literally the first post that I saw. Every time I do this, I can always find such an example in <10 seconds and half of that is going to Lemmy.ml in the first place.

I mentioned Mbin as being one potential solution. Sublinks is another (but in the meantime there's Tesseract on dubvee.org if you like that). I switched to PieFed myself, though there are quite a large number of issues with it (e.g. zero new posts from all the super cool Star Trek memes made in the last 3 days from https://piefed.social/c/tenforward@lemmy.world are showing up here - tho tbf this is far from the only instance that is struggling to catch up to updates with Lemmy.World). If you want to remain tied to the actual Lemmy codebase there's lemmy.cafe and quokk.au that defederates from hexbear.net and lemmy.ml (the former also defederated from Lemmygrad.ml). But so long as people keep joining e.g. lemmy.world or lemm.ee, they are going to have to discover how those instances are by themselves. Except they won't, and based on my experience, instead they leave - and then blame me for even having mentioned Lemmy to them in the first place.

We are fooling ourselves, to think that we can have our cake and eat it too. If you make fun of someone - e.g. people in the West including in USA, UK, Germany or other EU nation, etc. - then why would those very same people want to join in despite the "joke"? It's really not that hard to understand: we either make the Fediverse more welcoming to normies, or we give up hoping that they will come in spite of everything. And based on the MAU (monthly active users) stats, this is basically peak Lemmy right now without much chance to grow further - and if anything we're declining. I mean, I'm writing this to you from a non-Lemmy sourcecode-based instance right now.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

(e.g. zero new posts from all the super cool Star Trek memes made in the last 3 days from https://piefed.social/c/tenforward@lemmy.world are showing up here - tho tbf this is far from the only instance that is struggling to catch up to updates with Lemmy.World)

For people reading this, that got fixed in the meantime

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[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (6 children)

We should all defederate from .ml. That would be a huge step. We need to excise these extremists in order for the community to grow.

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[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 8 points 1 day ago (11 children)

go to Lemmy.ml

I'm gonna stop you right there, I've already found your problem. Try introducing them to instances that aren't militant.

But, since all of Lemmy is run by those guys, maybe just skip Lemmy altogether. I honestly don't see a future for it with them in charge.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 8 points 1 day ago (6 children)

I just said "Lemmy" and they went forward from there.

Helping people pick an instance is not as straight-forward task as many people claim. e.g. if you love programming, then perhaps programm.dev is right for you, except right now they are having enormous federation difficulties - e.g. https://programming.dev/post/20692281. They are far from the only ones doing so though - https://feddit.org/post/3524876 - and yet they do have more difficulties than most.

Any instance that is not Lemmy.World itself is going to suffer right now, until the deployment of 0.19.6 - https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/pull/4623. And yet people piling on top of the already too-large pile of Lemmy.World will only make the future problems worse. This whole "federation" concept is still experimental, compared to a single-server model like Reddit had.

Blaze often tells people to go by default to lemm.ee. Which is one of the rare instances that defederates from none of hexbear.net, lemmy.ml, or even lemmygrad.ml. So if someone comes across this advice and follows it... BTW, Lemmy.cafe likewise defederates from almost nothing, except it DOES defederate from those big 3 (caveat: it seems run by only a single administrator, so is therefore far less stable than e.g. lemm.ee, and could disappear at any time - though there are so many other things about that instance that are so welcoming and friendly, and btw it is one of the very select few that are already running 0.19.6-beta! so a single admin yes, but one who seems VERY on the ball!).

But ultimately you are correct: they control the sourcecode, so it is YOU who are using THEIR platform - and they WILL do it THEIR way, regardless.

Until and unless more people switch to Mbin, PieFed, or eventually Sublinks. Admiral Patrick who developed Tesseract for dubvee.org and who has blocked lemmy.ml users has pledged to switch to Sublinks whenever it will come out. In the meantime you can view a demo, but I haven't heard of any developments for it for like half a year. So I switched to PieFed, and am posting several bug reports to help make it better. I advise people to check all of these options out just to see what's out there, though definitely more is yet to come due to the hard work from these very helpful developers!

And credit where it's due: Dessalines is helping in his own way, to reduce people's dependency upon Reddit, and offering that codebase completely free of charge - that's not nothing. Though administering a server instance is an entirely different skillset... and if we want to see the Fediverse grow rather than shrink with time, I think that better fences are going to be necessary (or mere labels would be even better, except they seem to militantly refuse to do such - but could you imagine if "politically extremist" content had a label just like all the NSFW posts do? then we could all get along side-by-side in the same space).

Nobody enjoys being punched in the face, or to see their (or why not ANY?) nation mocked - especially normies who may have DEEP knowledge of their subject matter, yet happen to not use Arch Linux btw, or may not be actual full-on communists (yet?).

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

caveat: it seems run by only a single administrator, so is therefore far less stable than e.g. lemm.ee, and could disappear at any time

You pointed out the biggest issue with that instance.

If you have a better alternative (so blocking hexbear and lemmygrad, with a large userbase and managed by a group of admins), feel free to suggest it.

Also, do not underestimate the importance some users give to low defederation.
Lemm.ee is still the second largest instance for a reason.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

Right, and for people who want that low defederation, lemm.ee is not just a good but a great option. Though for normies, it may be turning people away.

But as you said, what other options are there? Lemmy.cafe seems so perfect in so many ways. Like their welcome messages are actually helpful, e.g. pointing people to !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca, as opposed to e.g. "What is Lemmy.ml" that is just a broken link to nowhere, or Lemmy.World's Getting started guide that doesn't mention things such as cross-posting. But then again, normies especially wouldn't like it when/if the instance suddenly has to shut down for whatever reason... I get you there.

So who else defederates from the entirety of the big 3? (Btw lemmy.cafe defederates from almost nothing but these, and threads ofc, so still has e.g. NSFW and anime instances linked. And quokk.au likewise has only a single admin.) Or better yet allows custom user blocking? PieFed does, Tesseract on dubvee.org, and perhaps some apps (not sure which ones - and the trick is that some appear to at first glance, but it's merely the same Lemmy back-end blocking that doesn't block users, only communities). And I'm not clear about Mbin - I think not.

Moreover, nearly every instance other than Lemmy.world is having federation issues with lemmy.world right now. But we can't just keep sending people to lemmy.world bc it's the only one that always works for >80% of the content on the Fediverse? That would somewhat work, but be a purely short-term solution. Yet nothing else would work... e.g. I made a post from StarTrek.website to tenforward on lemmy.world and couldn't see the comments (or votes) that people made to it for at least 2-3 days. Eventually I responded from a third instance involved - discuss.online - but federation issues such as this tend to have a cooling effect in terms of shutting down conversations. This stuff is going to turn normies away as well, on top of the toxicity issues.

So there are problems with every instance. At least you get your choice of which issues you want to deal with:-). The toxicity issue though is particularly what has driven away 100% of the people that I've mentioned Lemmy to irl, so it seems to be the major one. Perhaps if not for it they might have joined Lemmy and then left it later, but as it is they refuse to even consider it bc they can't get past that. So THAT is the one that I think we need to focus on to get more people. At which point yeah, perhaps add Lemmy.cafe to the recommendation list? Alongside PieFed that allows custom user blocking of whatever instance you want - and I mean the good kind, blocking not just communities but all comments as well.

Perhaps the reason that people are mentioning the defederation issues is due to Mastodon's heavy fragmention and inability to really search for content outside of someone's initial chosen instance? (Though that feature seems to be coming "soon(TM)".) If so that would make a LOT of sense?! However, the difficulties faced by Lemmy are of a different sort. Not being able to search for content from any other instance is nowhere near the same as e.g. the Western world defederating from an instance that constantly mocks and disrespects everything that it does - and kinda vice versa btw bc there is much that the Western world does not respect about how the Eastern world (specifically Russia and China) does things as well, e.g. the extremely heavy-handed banning from all communities, and how the East is "not" doing genocide, fully and literally directly, even while the USA "is" (I mean it low-key is, but how does that justify the Ukrainian invasion or the Uyghur situation?!) - the whole "one rule for thee, an entirely different set of rules for me" thing is a real turn-off for people to remain in the Fediverse. So while I don't doubt that people are asking for instances that aren't defederated from anything, I do question whether that's truly what they want, especially "they" meaning the majority of normies. It's complicated bc some truly do want something like lemm.ee, while on the other hand I see some people leaving Lemm.ee wanting to go somewhere that defederates from at the very least Hexbear. It's one thing to foster and encourage STRONG diversity of opinions, but it's another to open the door to people who consistently argue in bad faith (and rarely if ever do not do such). The former makes dull conversations better, while the latter ends conversations entirely.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

nearly every instance other than Lemmy.world is having federation issues with lemmy.world right now.

What do you mean? Having a quick test right now

It does not seem like "nearly every instance is having federating issues with LW right now".

that defederates from at the very least Hexbear.

It's always the same issues, there is no generalist instance that fits the bill:

https://lemmy.ca/instances is Canadian-focused, so non-Canadians aren't probably going to use it because they would think they "don't belong"
https://feddit.org/instances block HB and LG, but is German-focused
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/instances, but is queer-focused

You might have higher chances of convincing lemm.ee, lemmy.zip, lemmy.dbzer0.com, discuss.tchcs.de to defederate hexbear, than getting a small instance that does popular enough to enter the top 20

Or you can convince lemmy.cafe to get another admin, and get a bit more "professional" (a la lemmy.zip)

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 2 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I covered the federation issues in my other comment.

PieFed allows users to decide their own personal defederations without needing to depend upon an instance admin for that.

Hopefully as the UI gets more developed, people will gravitate more to PieFed, or Sublinks.

If the worst were to happen (another Ernst/Kbin.social situation) then any instance with only a single admin is indeed vulnerable, as is any instance that remains federated with it due to the inevitable spam attacks that will come from it.

Though the issues with federation with lemmy.ml are also important too. See e.g. that recent discussion at https://lemm.ee/post/45248880, where the admins expressed a desire for OP to physically commit suicide, all based on an easily preventable misunderstanding about a situation that happened in a game. Just to underscore how ridiculous what we are talking about is, here is a mini run-down of the facts: one non-existent irl character kissed another non-existent irl character, who had been dating in the game for awhile btw, having reached a "hearts" level of 8 of 10 points so quite an established relationship showing mutual interest, whereupon the 2nd character had just given a bouquet of flowers to the 1st one, who then kissed the 2nd one in a surprised and pleased movement, which the ML admins described as "sexual assault" (mistakenly thinking that that did not happen until reaching 10 of 10 points), banned the OP, oh and in the process also told the OP kill themselves. This sounds like insane ranting on my part I know, but it all actually happened!?!?!?! And it's not even something that we need to hear second-hand stories of, it's all right there in the modlogs preserved for anyone who wants to see directly.

It is because of events such as that - which KEEP HAPPENING - that I have stopped recommending Lemmy to anyone. Though I would love to start recommending PieFed as its UI improves a bit - and I will be helping that process along by submitting loads of bug reports to their team!:-) In the meantime, perhaps the downsides of instances such as lemmy.cafe being run by a single administrator do not seem so bad? After all, lemmy.ml has an entire team of administrators - but that did not stop SagXD from losing their account there, suddenly and without warning. Nor macniel or any of the others that we keep hearing about happening. That is why we are saying that having a single admin is bad right - b/c it is vulnerable to go down without warning? Afaik, I've never heard that lemmy.ml has offered a warning first before smashing the entire instance-wide ban hammer, even against a mod of a community there. Nor, again even for a mod there, do they even so much as tell them that it happened. Or explain what the cryptic modlog messages mean, which look at first glance as if they pertain only to individual communities, leaving people confused and having to figure out on their own what happened?

So anyway which is worse: a community with a single admin, or one with a whole team that is unhinged and somehow even more likely to boot someone, and with a demonstrated pattern of doing exactly that whenever it suits them?

And then ofc hexbear is a whole other thing too - who wants to be actively bullied, like why would that be fun for most of us, especially normies? If someone REALLY wants to be exposed to thus, then okay I won't stop them, but it really does seem to me like it would be helpful to at least offer a WARNING to new users that it is likely to happen. Which afaik lemm.ee does not do. Maybe as you recommend lemm.ee you can attach such a warning?

Possibly something like: "if you want an instance that is connected all servers across the fediverse, such does not exist but the closest seems to be lemm.ee, although be warned that it federates with known multiple instances known to encourage trolling behaviors; otherwise lemmy.cafe seems quite welcoming although it is small and with only a single admin so is less stable than others."

As you say, nothing is perfect. All we can do is try to help manage and perhaps mitigate this absolute shit-storm. Thanks for all your efforts there:-).

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

See e.g. that recent discussion at https://lemm.ee/post/45248880, where the admins expressed a desire for OP to physically commit suicide, all based on an easily preventable misunderstanding about a situation that happened in a game.

You should probably bring us it to achieve

convincing lemm.ee, lemmy.zip, lemmy.dbzer0.com, discuss.tchcs.de to defederate lemmy.ml

Maybe as you recommend lemm.ee you can attach such a warning?

I do

https://old.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/1fmuk7o/post_to_address_the_usual_criticism_about_lemmy/

You can block entire servers and specific communities.

Instances to block to avoid political content

https://lemmygrad.ml/

https://hexbear.net/

The tricky aspect with lemmy.ml is that they host the most active open source communities. So recommending everyone to block them would probably make Lemmy as a whole appear hostile, as you need to choose between accessing open source communities and blocking a hostile instance.

To be fair, at this point in time, you might probably want to create a dedicated community to discuss this issue with the rest of the people (maybe !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works) and agree on a potential action plan.

I feel like we've had this conversation two or three times in the last few weeks, it's not really solving the core issue.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 1 points 12 hours ago

Here's such a conversation with an admin at sh.itjust.works if you are interested: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/12051373, or with the mod of traditional_art@lemmy.ml https://discuss.online/post/12722075/11762479, and ofc there are many more. One conversation at a time, bringing up the logical points, condensing them, helping people know their options, etc.

blocking them is still one click away

Not... entirely, but yes an entire section dedicated to "hardcore tankies" helps!:-) I suppose that helps more for people brought in via Reddit, but not word-of-mouth recommendations, so if I am speaking of the latter then the burden is on me, and upon everyone else doing likewise, to "warn" their irl friends that they recommend to take a look at Lemmy. Which is why I am saying that it would be good to add automated labels. I think we are still waiting for a Lemmy upgrade though, that would allow for those? Or perhaps people are waiting specifically for 0.19.6 when Lemmy.World will upgrade, leading the way.

Lemmy.World naively might seem the most likely to attach a warning label to Lemmy.ml communities, seeing as e.g. they have defederated entirely from Hexbear.net, whereas so many other instances do not even do that much.

Though for myself, the longer this goes on the less faith I have that it will ever be fixed whilst remaining dependent upon the Lemmy.ml + lemmygrad.ml admins & devs to help accomplish the goals of bringing in more mainstream normies from the Western civilization that they so abhor and constantly ridicule. Why should they? They themselves do not want that. It is a harsh truth but we are on their platform, and that's that. We will receive what they deign to offer. Which is why I am trying now to help PieFed thrive, despite how far behind it is, and it would be great to see Sublinks arrive as well.

I feel like we've had this conversation two or three times in the last few weeks

You keep asking questions though... so I kept answering them:-P. I feel like we got some addditional clarity on your only focusing on the top 20 instances.

Little by little, progress is made. This issue is not entirely solvable though, using current methods available to us - e.g. the issue you mentioned that the desires of users to avoid being bullied are at cross-purposes with being able to access particularly the FOSS content such as !firefox@lemmy.ml. I will say that "accessing open source communities" isn't terribly hard - you don't even need an account for that, though indeed lacking one would cut someone off from participating by asking questions, posting, replying, and voting. Which is why something like a "community label" holds such appeal to me, and even more approaches such as PieFed's ability to enact user-initated user-blocking of custom user-specified instances without the need for the approval of an entire admin team and thereby the support of an entire community. It thereby democracizes blocking, making it available to anyone who wants it, which I for one think is awesome!?:-) Though the UI needs some polish, so I will focus on submitting bug reports to help with that.

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Fediverse

Rules