this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2022
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[CW: Transphobia] LGBT People: LEMMY IS NOT SAFE FOR YOU (lemmy.ml)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml to c/lgbt@lemmy.ml
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UPDATE: ADMIN STATEMENT IN COMMENTS

Leadership of Lemmy has dug in their heels and shown that they will be slow to remove overt homophobia, sexism, and transphobia on this platform. Administration will spend hours or days of effort defending these people to justify a ban that would be instant on other platforms.

You are not safe here. I recommend migrating to either Lemmygrad.ml or Hexbear.net (Hexbear being much less sectarian but the people on Lemmygrad are very cool 😎). Please take care out there. Fuck the patriarchy! Trans rights are human rights! ✊

Receipts:

https://lemmy.ml/post/470384/comment/276139

https://lemmy.ml/post/89596/comment/92129

https://lemmy.ml/post/470384/comment/275398

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[–] altair222@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I would rather suggest a more general purpose instance like beehaw if these allegations that youre making has any ground to them. Diverse set of opinions, when presented in good faith on a platform like beehaw will always be productive in a difficult discourse

[–] TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

If beehaw bans transphobes and homophobes on sight then plug yourself. But I'm done debating these people. My existence is not up for debate and there is nothing to discuss. I will continue to be trans regardless of people's opinions and disgusting namecalling.

[–] Gaywallet@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

We absolutely have zero tolerance for intolerant people over on Beehaw, this is not restricted to just transphobia or homophobia but any kind of bigotry.

[–] altair222@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

I didnt mean your existence is up for debate, but I completely understand how my comment could be interpreted as insinuating that. I suggest beehaw because I have a strong feeling that the admins are completely against any kind of explicit expression of prejudice towards any group.

[–] ragingpeach@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

As a queer person that sees this shit all the time, I'm indifferent. People are shit, this isn't new.

Ban them, yes, but there's no such thing as a safe space lmao. People are always going to sneak their way in.

I'd rather develop a thick skin than constantly running away every time someone calls me a groomer (and I have been called one; I actually have someone who's weirdly obsessed with me and continuing to make passive aggressive digs at me on Facebook lol)

If I'm not in a good headspace, I just tell them to die and click the block button... very easy (and inb4 it's problematic to tell someone to die, do we really still care about the lives of bigots that try to drive people to suicide. Lmao)

[–] altair222@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The point of a "safe space" doesn't come with the assumption that there won't be bad faith players in that space, its just that the moderation and the community can indeed create a place where if something does go wrong, it is handled as soon as possible and in the most productive way, especially in a way that tries to prevent bad faith players from overtaking a discourse on a platform.

[–] ragingpeach@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

And it looks like it was handled, no?

[–] altair222@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Not the point I was addressing from your original comment.

[–] ragingpeach@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm addressing that OP seems to be telling LGBT people to leave Lemmy because someone called them a groomer and one of Mark Zuckerberg's bots didn't immediately put the transphobe in Lemmy jail.

[–] altair222@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

OP is talking about a pattern, if you can't see that from this post then I can't say anything next that will help this conversation.

[–] ragingpeach@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't live on Lemmy, and if I did and were concerned about problematic stuff I'd never recommend Lemmygrad, you ask one genuine question and people act like you're Satan.

Lemmy's not a huge site to my knowledge... if it's that bad people can either leave, make their own site, or apply to be an admin/moderator.

[–] altair222@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If you, again, saw this post properly, you'll see I talked against lemmygrad myself.

[–] ragingpeach@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

... I'm not reading every comment. My life doesn't revolve around Lemmy.

Also, while we're at it, you keep pointing out that I can't see patterns or see the post properly. I have major cognitive issues especially when it comes to long texts, so PLEASE keep shaming me intellectually, lmao. You're lucky, the mods might not ban you for ableism! /s

[–] altair222@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If you do have cognitive issues, then I'm sorry that my comments were hurtful, they weren't meant to be an attack. All I'm saying is that context is always important and post titles on platforms like reddit and Lemmy dont provide the full picture of everything, hence it becomes a responsibility to make sure to atleast try and see the full picture to the best of our abilities.

[–] ragingpeach@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

I'm not necessarily hurt, just mildly annoyed - mostly because on my end, I've made it clear that my life doesn't revolve around Lemmy and even if it did, I'm not sure it's very common for people to read through an entire comments section or memorize who wrote what comment. So it's strange that that would even be some kind of argument.

Context is definitely important, but I feel like my points still stand - if it's really that bad, people should leave, and they don't need a post to tell them to leave if it is that bad. If they like Lemmy enough, they can work together on a new site, or apply for admin/moderator positions so that these things are taken care of.

Maybe it's just some weird pet peeve. Like... I get to decide if Lemmy's safe for me or not. I don't need someone else to tell me just because they had a bad experience (and I don't want to minimize that, because it is shitty, but again, this stuff sadly is EVERYWHERE).

I feel like it could've been better to say "Hey, it's been a topic of discussion lately, and the mods are shit. How do we want to proceed?" Instead it just feels self-centered and demanding. I don't like it. And that totally could be a "me" thing, I can be overly sensitive with tone.

(And as a bit of an aside, it may not be clear from how I type but I really do have cognitive issues - they're extra bad today for whatever reason and trying to word things has been a pain whether it seems that way or not. It's definitely a "processing only a few lines of text at a time" sort of day. No idea what's making things worse, but I hope it clears up sooner rather than later)

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Sry just logging on now. I banned a couple of the transphobes, and the main one banned himself before I got a chance to do so.

@TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml I made a bunch of recommendations for how to fix this systemically in our admin chat. Some of them here:

  1. We need to ban transphobes here faster (no bigotry is already in our sidebar, but for some reason transphobia isn't explicitly named, so I'm gonna try to add that).
  2. We should consider people's activity outside this instance when deciding whether to ban. Looking at it now, its silly to not consider a person's full internet persona. Not that we need to have foreknowledge of what they've done, but when things are brought to our attention, we need to act on them.
  3. Me and nutomic need to do less moderating, and more coding. Even tho this is the dev instance, we need to have some more separation between ppl coding for lemmy, and those moderating it. Moderating is a much worse use of our time anyway than coding or fixing things.
  4. We need to appoint more moderators, because its clear these things weren't attended to quickly enough.

Also I apologize for not getting to these things quickly enough, and want to thank you, @seanchai@lemmygrad.ml , @AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml, and everyone else for your work in that thread yesterday.

[–] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

We should consider people’s activity outside this instance when deciding whether to ban. Looking at it now, its silly to not consider a person’s full internet persona. Not that we need to have foreknowledge of what they’ve done, but when things are brought to our attention, we need to act on them.

Absolutely agree. Like I said on the other thread, we don't need to vet everyone by actively hunting down their external profiles (more because it's a ton of work for the admins and Lemmy is pseudoanonymous so it would be really hard), but if someone makes any of their other profiles known on their Lemmy account and especially if they're advertising it, we should never be willfully blind to that in our moderation decisions.

For the speed of moderation thing, I hope I can continue to mod as I see fit based on the rules, and if anyone think it's an overstep, they should message me. I'm terminally online so I see most of the reports first, and sometimes I hold off on removing them just because I'm worried that you guys will get mad. Like, I hope I'm not getting strikes and risking being kicked off the admin team.