this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2024
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Lets take a little break from politics and have us a real atheist conversation.

Personally, I'm open to the idea of the existence of supernatural phenomena, and I believe mainstream religions are actually complicated incomplete stories full of misinterpretations, misunderstandings, and half-truths.

Basically, I think that these stories are not as simple and straightforward as they seem to be to religious people. I feel like there is a lot more to them. Concluding that all these stories are just made up or came out of nowhere is kind of hard for me.

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[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 19 points 4 days ago (11 children)
  • 60% the person experiencing it misunderstood or misinterpreted what they were looking at because they were stupid and gullible, but not maliciously making things up.

  • 35% completely fabricated and never happened and created to legitimately defraud or troll others.

  • 5% something scientific that we simply don't understand yet.

  • 0% actual supernatural occurrences.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That 5% is the most exciting thing in the world.

[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 9 points 4 days ago

Completely agree.

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[–] Resonosity@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

If by natural forces we mean things like gravity, electromagnetism, color (strong force), and flavor (weak force), then absolutely there are phenomena that transcend those.

Those things are logic, causality, time, identity, math, etc. Ontology or metaphysics would be the formal subject. A lot of people in philosophy already study this, and it's considered one of the main branches of philosophy alongside epistemology and ethics/morality.

I've been studying causality lately, and it's fascinating how one of the best theories of it is that we diagnose causal relations based on how regular/reproducible they appear (Regularity Theory of Causation or RTC).

[–] ultranaut@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago (12 children)

Supernatural phenomena do not actually exist as far as I can tell. There's no actual evidence to my knowledge, and plenty of evidence that humans are not particularly good at perceiving or interpreting the universe around us as it actually is. Our brains are not a reliable narrator, supernatural phenomena are most likely a consequence of this rather than anything genuinely supernatural.

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[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago (2 children)

“Supernatural” is just unexplained, or misunderstood, natural phenomena.

I’ve spent years working in supposedly haunted buildings (as security.)

the guy who loves sharing his ghost story really didn’t appreciate being told that the “fleeting man” he saw apparitions of, were his own reflection (specifically in a corner window of a conference room, or in certain circumstances, in double-paned windows.)

Nor did he appreciate being told the ghost “walking” down the stairwell was really just the fire sprinkler standpipe clunking against the stairs as the building cooled off. (And the reason it happened around the same time every night was the building’s hvac being set to a lower temp to save energy.)

He most certainly didn’t enjoy being told that the doors closing in his face were caused by shorts in the magnetic door holders and that he really should have put that in his report (he was written up for not reporting a maintenance issue.)

He also got written up when we found out that he was leaving windows cracked in the space above him, but he wrote them off as ghosts screaming instead of the wind whistling through a slightly cracked window.

Our understanding of the universe is imperfect- and it probably always will be. The point of science is to improve that understanding using evidence and experimentation.

I’ll take science any day of the week.

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[–] custard_swollower@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago (5 children)

I’m a strict naturalist - I believe that supernatural phenomena do not exist. I do not believe in the unknown.

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[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 days ago
[–] Earflap@reddthat.com 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Supernatural phenomena is possible but not probable.

The only "supernatural" thing I believe in is reincarnation, and that's just a game of numbers. I believe we're on the verge of discovering that black holes birth new universes. Then your existence and rebirth just becomes a statistical eventuality. From your POV you would die and then immediately be aware of your next life; since death is a state of non-being, an infinite amount of time could pass between those two moments but you wouldn't experience any of it. So, it isn't really even supernatural since I don't believe anything like karma or whatever mediates the process.

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[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 11 points 4 days ago (15 children)

There hasn't been any proof in all of history that any supernatural phenomenon was real.
Until there is, my thoughts on it are: not real, never happened.

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[–] bunchberry@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

If something has observable properties, then it is part of nature, as we could observe it, model it, and include it into our scientific theories. If something has no observable properties, then it is not distinguishable from something that does not exist. Supernatural phenomena thus, tautologically, are not distinguishable from something that does not exist. Indeed, I would go as far as even saying the definition of nonexistence is to lack observable properties. That is why i se supernatural phenomena as a no-go. It either lacks observable properties, so it does not exist as a matter of definition, or it has observable properties, meaning it is just natural and not supernatural.

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[–] Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 days ago (13 children)

I fully believe there's ~something~ beyond our 3 spatial dimensions we call reality. What that is, I don't know. Does it have sentience, I doubt. I also think these things fall into unknowables, things each individual will develop a different feel for, and should be deeply personal.

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[–] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/718/

Basically, it's not that hard to believe there are so many stories.

[–] magnetosphere@fedia.io 8 points 4 days ago (3 children)

It’s entirely possible that supernatural phenomena exist. It’s also possible that what we call “supernatural” is merely science we don’t understand yet. After all, things like lightning and disease used to be attributed to gods, evil spirits, witchcraft, etc. I guess I’d call myself an open-minded skeptic, if that makes any sense.

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I'm basically at a point where I don't think any actual magic or phenomena exists, but the disciplines of metaphysical practice themselves are worthwhile for introspection and working on your mindset. Also I don't like to give voice to my own skepticism that much - I don't defend it or argue because I can't be talked out of it and it's not very fun to be that guy. It's more fun to entertain the fanciful things and hold ideas lightly among people who are inclined to talk about phenomena.

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