this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2025
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Hundreds of feet up in the air (lemmy.world)
submitted 5 days ago by DougHolland@lemmy.world to c/aiop@lemmy.world
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[–] Hylactor@sopuli.xyz 91 points 5 days ago (5 children)

I recently saw the movie Titanic for the first time. It honestly made me pretty mad how directly it relates to the problems of the intervening years since it came out. In the movie: rich people are not to be trusted, the experts are ignored in favor of media coverage, the poor are trapped below decks, there aren't enough life boats, by the time people start accepting reality it's too late. It's almost all too perfect. The iceberg can be global warming, or the pandemic, or the return of fascism, basically any of the major calamities of the past 10 years. And everyone saw the movie. It was a massive hit. And all anyone took away from it was that Rose gets naked. So both the movie, and the response to the message of the movie, are almost too on the nose.

[–] Tin@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Titanic nerd here. There are definitely lessons that we've still not learned. Greed and hubris are easily spotted, but the more insidious enemy that doomed Titanic was complacency. In 1912 there was a real sentiment that man was the master of the universe, that war was a thing of the past, that modern science made ships practically unsinkable... none of that was true, of course.

Jack Thayer, a survivor, later wrote about how the Titanic sinking presaged a sea change in the world, and not for the better:

"There was peace and the world had an even tenor to its way. Nothing was revealed in the morning the trend of which was not known the night before. It seems to me that the disaster about to occur was the event that not only made the world rub its eyes and awake, but woke it with a start, keeping it moving at a rapidly accelerating pace ever since with less and less peace, satisfaction and happiness. To my mind the world of today awoke April 15th, 1912"

[–] passiveaggressivesonar@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

A titanic fan are you? Name every iceberg 🔫

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

No possible comeback from this one.

[–] Monzcarro@feddit.uk 28 points 4 days ago

Really good points that I've not seen articulated this well before.

I remember seeing the movie at the cinema when it came out and it really upset me. I cried all the way home and I was still tearful the next day at school. I really struggled to explain to people that no, it wasn't about Leonardo DiCaprio, it was this catastrophic and unnecessary loss of life caused by greed and hubris

[–] WordBox@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

"Don't look up" exemplifies this 1000x better. It's frustrating AF but you have to remember to laugh or you'll go nuts.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 4 days ago

The real joke is always how people completely miss the point on these things.

[–] LordCrom@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Know what I took away from that movie.... Rose is a bitch.

She states that she married a good man and was married for 40 years or whatever.

Then she dies and goes to her afterlife where she meets the guy she met for 3 days then fucked once.

And there's her loyal husband, waiting to meet her in the afterlife, but then realizes that she harbored this love of this little fucker their entire marriage, living a lie with him. He realized she was just using him the whole time.

Rose is a bitch.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

What I took away from the movie is that in the depths of his clearly extensive research, James Cameron decided that out of 885 crew members and 1,317 passengers, not one of them had a story worth basing a movie around, so he had to make up multiple new ones (not just Jack and Rose, Rose's fiance, Rose's mother and Jack's Italian friend were all fictional).

Good thing none of them were alive anymore except maybe a baby or two or they would have probably gotten offended.

And it makes me think his research was mostly the sort that certain WWII buffs do- learn every single detail about the tanks and the guns and the uniforms but not the name of anyone ranked below general.

[–] sheetzoos@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago

[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 64 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Excellent analogy.

I used, “Why do starving people have distended stomachs? They can’t be starving with those big bellies, right?”

The ship is more accurate and less upsetting, although shock can sometimes be compelling through cognitive dissonance. I think from now on I’ll start with the ship and progress from there.

[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 20 points 5 days ago

Unfortunately, Republicans don’t care about logic or reality. They care only about winning.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Now show the dems collecting bribes/lobbying from the iceberg.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 18 points 5 days ago

They'll be fine longer than everyone else. Until the hull snaps in half and comes crashing down. Yeah, it's a good climate analogy.

[–] psycho_driver@lemmy.world 13 points 4 days ago

I'm more relating to that old couple that just lies down in bed and waits for the end.

[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

And Democrats are the band playing as the ship sinks.

Really I guess they’re both the iceberg. Both parties keep breaking extraction records, and protect fracking.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Both parties

🙄

[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago

Oh did Democrats reverse their support of fracking? They stop supporting the Willow Project? Are they criticizing the Biden admin for breaking extraction records?

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Yes it's laughable that we're violently controlled by uber-privileged "parties".

[–] zephorah@lemm.ee 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Never gets old.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 23 points 5 days ago

Like the children of anti-vaxxers.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Or russians about their economy.

[–] Bacano@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Or Americans about theirs 😂

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world -1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Lots of stuff bad in the USA but the economy isn't one.

Edit: lol angry anti USA people.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It is if you use more relevant metrics:

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So you think it's crashing, like in the meme?

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

No, it's crashed decades ago and gotten steadily worse ever since.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I'm talking about the economy, which is booming, not about inequality which is down the drain.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

You're talking about the part of the economy that establishment media and politicians focus on.

That part overwhelmingly measures how things are for the very rich while ignoring key metrics that better reflect how the ENTIRE economy is doing.

I'm talking about the ENTIRE economy, which in fact has gotten steadily worse ever since the early 70s with the only major anomalies being for the WORSE.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world -2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Yeah, true. I talk about what 99% of people know as the economy, bnp and all that crap.

If you want to talk about something else, please do, but you shouldn't use "economy" for that IMO, and trying to change what virtually everyone thinks "economy" stands for is just muddying the waters.

If you had said, they are unhappier, there is more poverty etc. I would have said, yes you are perfectly right.

But that wasn't what was discussed.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I talk about what 99% of people know as the economy, bnp and all that crap.

Well 99% of people have been gaslighted into believing a distortion so severe that it's essentially a lie.

If you want to talk about something else, please do, but you shouldn't use "economy" for that IMO, and trying to change what virtually everyone thinks "economy" stands for is just muddying the waters.

I couldn't disagree more! To do what you're asking of me would amount to accepting the lie and reinforcing it. The majority going along with a false narrative makes it MORE important to be clear about what's ACTUALLY going on despite the establishment narrative, not less!

that wasn't what was discussed.

Wrong again. An economy is "The [entire] system or range of economic activity in a country, region, or community.", not just the parts that the establishment has tricked the larger population into focusing on in order to present a false impression that what's good for their owner donors is good for the country.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Oh, 99% of all people are wrong and only you and a handful of people are right.

Well I don't think you are, and so do the vast majority of the whole world. But keep believing if you're happier that way.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

99% is YOUR grossly exaggerated figure. More than 1% of the world knows enough to see through the establishment media and politicians' lie.

But yes, framing the small section of the economy that overwhelmingly affects the rich most as "the economy" IS wrong no matter how many people have been gaslighted into believing that it's accurate.

It's the equivalent of basing the statistics of all car sales on how many limousines and Lamborghinis are sold.

[–] DougHolland@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Eloquent. Added to my to-be-plagiarized file.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago

Thanks, happy to contribute to your future efforts 😁

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Bigoted potato? Wtf are you on about now?? 🤦

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Wow you went on a down vote spred on my comments, how grown up lol. Guess that's all you have when your arguments and goalpost movings all fall flat.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

First of all, I downvote misinformation and logical fallacies such as the appeals to authority and appeals to popularity (not to mention calling me and everyone else who disagree with you angry anti-US bigots 🙄) that your comments are littered with. That's not being childish, that's having standards.

Second, my arguments never "fell flat", you just either didn't understand or pretended not to understand.

Third, I never moved any goal posts. My argument has been that it's misleading to the point of disinformation to characterize the aspects of the economy that disproportionately affect rich people as representing the economy as a whole, no matter how many authority figures perpetuate that falsehood and no matter how many people believe it, from the start.

TL;DR: You've been wrong from the start, you continue to be wrong, and no amount of projection is going to change that.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

And you need economic 101.

Words are powerful and should not be subverted.

To each their own.

Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy

Maybe you would like PPP more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Again: I know all that.

I'm not ignorant about the ways the establishment distorts and cherry picks economic data to suit their own interests, I'm refusing to accept and participate in the gaslighting.

That you STILL don't get it says a lot about you, none of it good.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I know all that too, I'm just using the words for what they stand for. "Economy" isn't something inherently good, and I don't like it when peopke try to change the meaning of it. IMO things like PPP is probably way better to measure happiness (but the world still burns), and so on. I'm all for stopping the crazyness aroung infinite growth, and to distribute wealth better. But if we're going to talk about it, especially on the internet, it's too easy to not understand eachother if words lose their meaning.

Have a good day!

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'm just using the words for what they stand for.

No, you're stubbornly clinging to a deliberately misleading synecdoche while insisting on missing my point about how it's misleading and as such should not be perpetuated.

Your own first comment is an excellent example: you responded to a comment about the US economy AS A WHOLE being bad by saying that the cherry picked parts are doing well.

"Economy" isn't something inherently good

Nobody claimed ANYTHING of the sort. And you accused ME of moving the goalposts?? 🤦

I don't like it when people try to change the meaning of it.

Then stop aiding and abetting the people doing exactly that.

IMO things like PPP is probably way better to measure happiness

Again with the goalpost moving. Also, no. That's not a very good way to measure happiness OR the economy as it lumps in spending money you already have with accruing debt, which is also beneficial to the rich and detrimental to everyone else.

I'm all for stopping the crazyness aroung infinite growth, and to distribute wealth better.

I agree, but that's a completely different discussion. The goalposts are in an entirely different stadium now.

But if we're going to talk about it, especially on the internet, it's too easy to not understand eachother if words lose their meaning.

Which is WHY I am insisting on the neutral and comprehensive definition of the word "economy" over the commonly used but inherently misleading one you prefer adhering to.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Okay explain to me what economy means.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I already did but ok, one last time if it'll make you leave me alone:

An economy is the [entire] system or range of economic activity in a country, region, or community.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It's the production, distribution and trade, as well as consumption of goods and services.

What's your problem with that definition?

BTW downvotes doesn't really count here on Lemmy but if that makes you happy...

[–] Bacano@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

Lmao the economy is great for those hundreds of feet up in the air.

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago

Because there are still hundreds of you on the ship

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

"...and how is all this ice still here???"

[–] madkins@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

Excellent song about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNi1sevKNd0