Rolled up scrolls attached to foxes
this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2025
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Privacy
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Listn, I don't mind occasionally moving your scrolls back and forth, but if you would attach them to my back instead of my legs it would make it a lot easier OK.
Recommending to friends and family means Signal. With a phone number they can start using the gold standard for encryption from the get go.
I'd consider Signal to be the gold standard of secure communications.
You can describe it to them like WhatsApp, except it's private, secure, not Facebook-owned, nonprofit so it can't be bought or sold, etc.
Here's the blog post that I share with my friends comparing Signal to iMessage and WhatsApp when they ask me about it.
It usually answers most of their questions.
Just a note that there's an in development fediverse app called 'sup' by the creators of pixelfed. It's not released yet but is going to be encrypted and Open Source. https://mastodon.social/@dansup/113912441928236882
Signal for your family (mostly due to interface), Matrix for online communities, and SimplexChat if you're trying to be a privacy extremist. I did have some success with setting simplexchat up for some old people over the phone because they didn't need an account.
I just moved to Signal and have convinced most of my family and many friends to join. It is very secure, non-profit and doesn't share much personal data (the least of the main messaging services) and most of my luddite family has been able to figure it out.
signal or SimpleX.
I'm starting to move away from Matrix, primarily because its metadata is not encrypted. So you might have a message that's encrypted, but the emoji reaction like a thumbs up is not encrypted, and the time it was sent and received is not encrypted, and who it was sent from and to is not encrypted.
Not to mention that in Matrix, private key management for encryption in rooms and stuff like that is quite frankly a pain in the ass. Even I as a cryptocurrency user have trouble making sure that my keys are properly stored without fucking them up.
I would not recommend my friends or family members use it for these reasons.
Matrix, xmpp, simplex. Do not use Signal or any service with centralized servers hosted in a 5 eyes country.
Seconding simplex. Having a built in way to obfuscate IP is very nice. But its more for privacy extremism and small group chats for people in vulnerable situations, matrix is best for most situations e.g. community and interest groups. I also had some ease with setting up simplex with my grandma, funny enough. Not needing to make an account made it much easier for her.
Hope Lemmy gets a simplexchat field one day!
Signal is the easiest with true end to end encryption with keys stored on the endpoints only.
Signal
I've used Signal since it first came out as TextSecure like 10+ years ago.
It doesnt have fancy bells or whistles, but its work well for me and good enough that ive gotten elderly family members to use it too
Signal and Telegram both require user ID to use their apps. SimpleX-chat does not, zero registration. So if privacy is your number one whish from your messenger than SimpleX is what you're looking for.
Signal. It's changed a lot. For the better.
Contains proprietary code. I recommend Molly-FOSS instead.
Upvoted.
Appreciate the reply, but I don't mind some proprietary code. There are very few reviews of open code by respected bodies (I'm writing in generality here). I'm certainly not qualified to review code. Just being open is only the beginning of the journey.
As we've seen with some open software recently there are some active hackers successfully targeting open software because it is open. Such exploits are not always discovered in good time.
https://thenewstack.io/why-so-much-open-source-software-is-vulnerable-to-hackers/
https://thehackernews.com/2025/01/github-desktop-vulnerability-risks.html
Etc etc.
I place store by the warrant responses and action of government entities against some software.
Thanks. You're not wrong, and I appreciate the well-written response. Some might say you are defending/advocating proprietary software with this stance, but I don't think there is a clear answer either way that applies to every circumstance.
Thank-you for your kindness. And it is really kind!
I'm old so my view of prop software is rooted in the change of early Microsoft et al bringing real change to the dubious parasitic entities that they are today. I watched it slowly happen and have been delighted and contributing in a small way with Linux since the turn of the century.
RedHat had been sold to the 'no-one ever got fired for buying IBM' (I still can't believe that they believed that that was a winning slogan). In these trying times the love for open source isn't translating into enough cash; average people are stretched.
I can't wait for the leaders in my country to stop pandering to the world's oligarchs and serve the people that elected them.
Signal
Yup echoing most here. Unless you or someone you are paying are willing to put time and effort in to maintaining Matrix, go with Signal. It's like WhatsApp but actually secure and is appropriate for the vast majority of use cases.
Signal for security standard and ease of use, which is essential, if You want to use it with non techy people.
Simplex for anonymity, You can download it, share chat and start talking without registration.
Simplex for anonymity, You can download it, share chat and start talking without registration.
It ate my battery when I installed it. Do you use it on a daily basis? What's your experience with its battery consumption?
Have it on always on, with small scale friends and family use. Don't find it too draining, updates have improved the battery usage
I'm in one room with 1,500 people and it uses about 7% of my battery. Mind you, that is a lot for a messenger. But I can deal with that.
Sadly, I have no one to use with it, so I don't know about battery usage. I just like, that it doesn't require any external identifiers, unlike Signal.
I will second the others that only suggest Signal or a variant of Signal like Langis or Molly. Everybody has each other's phone numbers, go with Signal so people don't need any other contact information.
Never heard of Langis before :)
I got my mother on XMPP - if you set the person's account up, Conversations is as easy to use as Whatsapp or Signal, but doesn't have the central server dependence.
Personally I'd go with Signal. Matrix has a certain jank level IME, for example rooms can get desynced between homeservers and the only way to fix is to create a new room and abandon the old one. Not sure how often that happens for small scale use though, I've only seen it in large rooms.
No bridges are not end 2 end encrypted. The best you can do is host the server and bridge in your own home and thus have the bridge "end" in a secure location.
If your friends and family are not very technical, then Matrix is probably a bad idea as it tends to be quite in your face about all sorts of technical issues especially with the encryption keys and so on. It works ok usually once everything is set up though.
XMPP is IMHO the better option as the mobile apps are easier to understand and the e2ee usually works out of the box and stays out of the way unless you specifically want to mess around with it. For a friends & family server I recommend setting up https://snikket.org/ or rent a server from them cheaply.
There are also good bridges for XMPP, but setting them up requires more understanding of self-hosting.
I second xmpp + omemo, and would caution that as far as I can remember matrix leaks significant metadata when syncing between instances/services.
As a personal decision I got away from signal (molly in fact) more than a year ago.
I'm also keep jami working with my family, particularly for things not requiring immediate response. It's a different beast, since it's p2p, but there's no server associated to it, no matter if decentralized or not. It's easy as well, just not as responsive, in particular if looking for immediate responses... I like and keep both, hoping jami improves.
I got my family onto signal. The app is basic, but that is kinda a benefit when getting half-blind 90yo's onto it.
I switched from hangouts when they killed group calls by trying to be zoom.
No regrets, but group calls sometimes dont ring, which is annoying. Mostly good though.
i use simplex with people i used sms with before, and matrix for everything else
I don't use messengers with vendor lock-in. Therefore Matrix and XMPP see: https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix-en.html
Both self hosted on a Raspberry #freedombox https://freedombox.org/
Matrix has all the features like Slack and WhatsApp and XMPP Conversations: the very last word in instant messaging.
If no one's on any kind of private messaging platform, SimpleX is good and fairly easy to use. But I mostly use Signal just because everyone's on it.
Also consider your threat model; Signal is appropriate for just casual personal conversations, but it is centralised and not self-hostable. The servers are run by the Signal org who are based in the US. If the potential of message metadata (which can be used to eg create networks of who's messaging who) getting into the hands of the US state could create significant issues for you, you may want to at least find either a decentralised or self-hostable solution which is not so US-centric. I assume, though, since you're talking to these people on non-private platforms, that these are not super sensitive discussions anyway.
Bit the gist of this comment section, lots of signal users because it's the standard alt. SimpleX has better anonymity than both Signal and Telegram, which should make it way more popular for the privacy conscience.
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