this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2025
-16 points (21.4% liked)

Linux

6067 readers
286 users here now

A community for everything relating to the GNU/Linux operating system

Also check out:

Original icon base courtesy of lewing@isc.tamu.edu and The GIMP

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I started with mint more than 10 years ago because a friend of mine told me it was one, if not the best, distro for newbies (that was a fucking lie). Idk how mint is doing today but back then was kind of a mess and dealing with it wasnt easy, so i dont really know how or why i switched to debian for a while. With debian i had a lot of problems with some software, mostly proprietary drivers for esotic hardware i was running back then due to me buying the cheapest laptops available, so i started distro hopping for a while. Every distro but fedora was debian based so it felt a lot like a more of the same experience and I felt stuck in a loop where i was eventually gonna reinstall my whole system after breaking something i didnt even know existed.

Then one day i found arch. Installing it wasnt as easy as clicking install on the live system’s guy, but just by following the wiki general instructions i didnt have any issues the first time. It felt good. Building the system block by block helped me understand how things work, the package manager was the best i had seen and the newbie corner basically had the solutions for all my screw-ups, even more than ask-ubuntu did. Everybody in the community was super helpful (even some of the devs). Then there was the AUR, with almost every piece of esotic or proprietary software i needed, much easier than adding some random guy’s repositories to apt or enabling backports on debian. Also i found out that i prefer having a rolling release. With arch i learned how to use and maintain my system, and i just stuck with it.

That said, just how some use linux just to brag about it with their normie friends, many many people use arch to brag about it with other linux users (like my friend did), mostly beacause arch has the infamous reputation that it is hard to install, hard to maintain, easy to break. Which is actually not that bad considering that all these people are gonna end up posting in the newbie corner lol.

Truth is that arch is not harder than any other distro. It only comes down to your will to learn and RTFM What i think worked for me was the transparency. Nobody said it was as easy to use as windows, but nobody in the wiki said “dont do this unless you are an experienced user”. Arch is not another fork of ubuntu pretending to be “even more user friendly”, it’s just arch.

I think the problem is about distros like antergos (rip), manjaro, garuda, endevour trying to oversimplify something that only needs you to RTFM only ending up breaking something they tried to automate and hide behind a curtain that wasnt meant to be automated and was meant to be learned to manage, by hand

Drag doesn't have an opinion one way or the other about this, as drag hasn't used Arch. But drag liked reading this comment and would enjoy reading a discussion about it.

top 14 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] mox@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

What kind of monster not only posts text as a screen shot, but re-posts a Lemmy comment as a screen shot... on Lemmy?

Edit: I see they edited the post to include the text of the comment. I guess they must have noticed mine. :)

[–] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago
[–] dragonfucker 3 points 2 days ago

Yes, drag liked your feedback, it helped drag improve the post. Thank you.

I don't think there's any simple answer to what's beginner-friendly, because so much is hardware-dependent. They mentioned obscure laptop hardware, and at that point I wouldn't even make a recommendation to someone beyond "see if any distros have a wiki page about that specific hardware, and search for forum threads about it".

I'm sure there are cases when Arch is a lot easier than Mint. I'm not sure why they dismissed Fedora out of hand, though. What's wrong with Fedora?

[–] ashaman2007@lemm.ee 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yeah... I'm laughing at this guy saying the AUR is much better than installing from a random Github repo. Same level of trust haha.

Also, not everybody NEEDS to know how something works to use it. And, just getting someone onto Linux in the first place with a 90% working system seems better to me than them working hours and hours to build a minimal system in Arch ... because it would take even more hours to replicate their workflow on Windows or Mac. I think this is a great example of "perfect is the enemy of good" when trying to get people to adopt something.

However, I definitely believe that if you want perfection, you go to Arch or a derivative and you do it yourself, no automation. But that should be a choice... I do plan on one day switching from Tumbleweed to Arch, but I am not ready for the time commitment. Plus, NVIDIA finally fixed their shit, so I want to enjoy playing games for a while now that the weird issues and visual artifacts caused by the old non-explicit-sync drivers are gone!

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] haverholm@kbin.earth 3 points 2 days ago

TL;DR — after poor experiences with Mint and other Debian-based distros (on cheap laptops with fringe hardware), the writer had learned enough about the ins and outs of Linux that an Arch install was a piece of cake. They then conclude that Arch isn't as deep techie as its reputation.

Personally, I've gone from years of Debian to EndeavourOS, and although it's a more "user friendly" version of Arch I have to agree with their point. They just omit the benefit of the learning curve that comes with late hours trying to get your off-brand touchpad (or whatever) to work with a more conservative/stable distro and its selection of drivers.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 1 points 2 days ago

I been running arch in some of my qubes and yeah its cool to have a really light weight image and its cool to play wirh new features as soin as they are available but I don't have the bandwidth to constantly fix shit every 2weeks cos some obscure package now has issues with some new version of reverse flumberboozle 69.

[–] 0101100101@programming.dev -1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Arch users don't value their time.

Having a "great" understanding of how a Linux system is tied together is fine for the now, but in five years time, will be useless as things change so why not spend your time being productive in the now.

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Why would that be the case? Arch offers some good tools, good documentation, all to save people time...

And I've been around for some time. I can assure you Linux will be pretty much the same in 5 years time. Minus a few details and intricate details. But I'd say if you had learned how to use the unix commandline in the late 80s, you could still apply a good amount of knowledge today and be more productive than someone without that ability. I'm not that old... But for the last 10 years, I wouldn't say it moves that fast at all. The concepts are super old. And sure, we occasionally switch from Xorg to Wayland... But that took me close to zero effort.

[–] 0101100101@programming.dev 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

To save people the time of not having to read it all to know how to do something so simple as to install it when it could just be made to install itself?

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

I suppose you do it like with every other operating system... Get the installation media, boot into the live system, and then you run 'archinstall'. It'll ask you a bunch of questions and then install itself.

[–] sip@programming.dev 0 points 2 days ago

bwhahaha arch users downvoting like crazy.

I stick to manjaro testing because of the 2 weeks lag so a broken package won't take my workstation down when I need it. had arch on a laptop, roughly the same thing.

[–] GeneralDingus@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 days ago

Dude the arch manual sucks balls sometimes