this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2025
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[–] lig@lemmings.world 11 points 8 hours ago

Lately, their posts on Mastodon became full of comments questioning their CEO political views. I guess, this is the answer to those, a clear one.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 28 points 20 hours ago

Proton is really just trashing their rep.

[–] M1k3y@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Three years ago I made an issue on their feedback page because the android app doesn't really work on degoogled phones, it requires gms for notifications. Still not fixed.

Nice privacy focused App that can't fully be used if you take privacy seriously.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 4 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

FYI i use a degoogled FP3 with microG and I don't have any problem.

[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

One wonders why the rest of the Proton Foundation hasn't stepped in and gotten rid of Andy; I assume it's just because they don't actually care about privacy, they're just cryptonerds.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 2 points 7 hours ago

I suggest you give a read to "Privacy is power" by Carissa Veliz (on the board). She also gave a very good interview on the podcast "firewalls don't stop dragons".

I also don't think "cryptonerds" applies to people like Tim Berners Lee.

[–] Zink@programming.dev 12 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

I’d say this move seems too dumb even for fiction, if that wasn’t the SOP for the entire country I live in.

Given the context though, I’m curious if one of you privacy experts can change my mind on how I approach email.

I don’t use email for any meaningful communication where I expect privacy. It is essentially the way for companies and a few other organizations to send me low priority information and/or confirm my identity to reset a password or whatever. Because of that, the only attributes of an email service I really care about are reliability and availability, including not having emails silently blocked for not coming from a “trusted” provider.

So what is the practical risk of just using a Gmail address for that stuff, equivalent to hiding in plain sight? Yeah it helps Google fine tune their advertising model for me, while I’m running Linux on all my machines and blocking ads on any device I touch. My social media is Lemmy and my streaming service is Jellyfin.

Am I risking too much if I use it as the corporate contact point that it is? Am I just letting my white/straight/cis/male privilege show through?

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 1 points 7 hours ago

I don’t use email for any meaningful communication where I expect privacy. It is essentially the way for companies and a few other organizations to send me low priority information and/or confirm my identity to reset a password or whatever.

As a privacy enthusiast (expert seems too much), this immediately stood out. Privacy is the context of emails means that all my data which includes the content of the messages but also the metadata (who I talk to, which services I use - like in your example -, when I communicate, how often, etc.) is kept private, meaning not used for anything else than providing me the service (i.e., let me send and receive emails). From this point of view, even if you consider the content of your emails not sensitive, already the fact that you do use company X (because they sent you a password reset email) is data about you, and as such can and will be mined by Google to profile you or to sell it.

Am I risking too much if I use it as the corporate contact point that it is? Am I just letting my white/straight/cis/male privilege show through?

Nobody can tell you this, because risk in this context is purely a subjective estimation, and you are free to do what you please. However, I do care about my privacy, which means that I want to minimize the amount of data about me available for sale or to others in general. For me the motivation is quite simple, while I do block ads everywhere too and I generally don't have an impact in terms of getting personalized ads, once the data is collected I have no idea what will be used for, by whom and for what purpose. It doesn't even matter if the data actually allows to infer accurate things about me, it's enough that someone (e.g., insurance company, employer, bank, government, etc.) is gullible enough to believe that inference is correct. In the book "Privacy is power" (written by Carissa Veliz) she also develops a very interesting argument about the fact that violating your privacy usually means also violating the privacy of the people near you (the people with whom you share demographic, the people you communicate with etc.). This could be another point of view to consider.

Anyway, if for you the above is fine, there is no other significant risk you are taking, and you should keep using Gmail if that suits you.


A technical note. Secure email providers generally can have technical controls (i.e., encryption) to protect the body (content) of the email, and in some cases some small amount of metadata (e.g., Tuta encrypts also the subject). Generally though, you are still trusting the provider to perform that encryption (especially because a mail from Gmail -> Proton/Tuta would be encrypted by Proton/Tuta) and to not use metadata for any purpose besides delivering the emails. So privacy here doesn't mean absolutely removing the data from a third party, but it means giving it to a third party who uses it (due to contractual obligation, business incentives etc.) only for the intended purpose in a privacy-preserving way.

[–] WarlordSdocy@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

I mean yeah I think the main problem is just Google having all that data about you and potentially selling it to others whether that be for advertising, robocalling, or other things. So it really just comes down to how comfortable you are allowing Google to be able to use your emails and communications from corporations to see what things you like. Only time it really matters more is if you are using email for more personal or secure communications which yeah I would always prefer using better encrypted more messaging focused apps like signal for or just talking in person when possible.

[–] UnfairUtan@lemmy.world 17 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I've committed a bunch of relatives and myself to a year of the Family plan, and now most of us want to leave.. What a mess.

[–] Kurroth@lemmy.world 0 points 8 hours ago

Wait, you bought/gave money to Proton so early in its life? Why do people keep falling for these over and over.

If a 'can run on low resources sustainably' is legit, going to have test and wait for it to see first.

Otherwise we need to accept what we can and can't have based on what is possible without being greedy and at someone else's expense.

[–] cultsuperstar@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Do they really need a team of people to post the same thing to X, Mastodon, BkueSky, etc? I'm honestly surprised they don't have some bot to make all the posts for them to those services. Sounds like a cop out to me.

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 2 points 10 hours ago

i heard they stopped posting on bluesky weeks ago, not surprised they are active on meta platforms, and X.

[–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 4 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

They specifically said they don't want to do automated posting, to avoid writing and not interacting with the community. I see no value in them doing this, considering we can get the same content via RSS, blog page or email newsletter. Presence makes sense if it means presence. If it means a bot reposting content, anybody can do it, but the value is very low.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

It wouldn't be hard to do simultaneous posting. People figured that out ages ago.

[–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 6 points 22 hours ago

It's not a problem of complexity, it's a deliberate choice of not wanting to do that, because it is synthetic content disconnected from the community.

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[–] dan00@lemm.ee 57 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Such delicate snowflakes these ceos…

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

on reddit they can pursue sitewide bans more easily on users, since reddit had started doing this month. its to silence all criticism against them, im betting facebook will be thier next stop.

one simple reporting of your acct will get you immediately banned from the sub, and potentially a sitewide ban.

[–] Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I do think the second part of your statement was unnecessary.

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[–] BastingChemina@slrpnk.net 59 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Ouch! They really are working hard on getting any privacy oriented person to leave them.

I'm glad I have moved away from them.

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 25 points 1 day ago

fleeing to reddit of all place, banning any instance of discourse, much like facebook is now.

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[–] SnotBubble@lemmy.ml 3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I agree this is an issue. They move away from a privacy oriented community. Additionally, the reason they give is vague and easily dismantled. What I'm interested in is why this would be a good enough reason to switch providers. They haven't changed anything crucial in their mail offering, so why should I switch?

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

kinda wierd for proton to promote on reddit, when reddit doesnt allow VPN usage to most users, mostly for spam/botting/ban evasions.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 1 points 7 hours ago

That may be, but they have always done that. Reddit is the only place where they have a real presence for years. It's not like they are moving there now. They have always been predominantly there on the first place.

[–] nixfreak@sopuli.xyz 4 points 21 hours ago

This really sucks, I like using Proton and now I want to leave... WTF

[–] Chonk@lemmy.world 43 points 1 day ago (4 children)

What kind of expensive resources you need to just post on Mastodon?

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 21 points 1 day ago (7 children)

ability to silence, and censor or criticism,?-proton probably

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[–] Nexy@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 23 hours ago

Protón is just a bunch of criptonazis

[–] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 313 points 1 day ago (79 children)

After Andy Yen's endorsement of the orange utan, I would seriously reconsider using any Proton product.

Yen tried to backpedal meekly several times since then, to get out of the pickle he got himself into with his definitely-not-impressed customers, but it's a bit late for that: either he's pro-Trump or he's naive. Either way, he makes Proton sketchy.

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[–] kbal@fedia.io 102 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Pointing people to reddit, as if that's an alternative. When a VPN provider makes such bad choices it's tempting to imagine that the decision was influenced by somebody who wants to secretly get the message out that the company is no longer to be trusted, because it's hard to see any other logic in it.

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[–] CH3DD4R_G0BL1N@sh.itjust.works 36 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Well this is certainly one of the decisions of all time. I guess we finally got our reaction from the board. I was waiting, hoping to hear some rebuke of Yen’s bullshit. Didn’t expect another intentional step into shit. Bye Felicia.

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 162 points 1 day ago (9 children)

This might sound crazy but this is way worse to me than the CEO simping for orange man. At least for Trump he has a semi plausible excuse.

Reposting stuff on Mastodon or Bluesky barely requires any additional effort. And I cannot think of a good reason to close abandon the free publicity when they already have it set up.

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[–] mok0@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

@mailbox_org@mailbox_org@mastodon.social are running their own mastodon server and it's an excellent mail service provider. @Tutanota@mastodon.social are also present on Mastodon and is likewise an excellent mail service provider.

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