this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2025
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[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 3 points 39 minutes ago

What if the population is stabilizing? Unlimited growth is death. Anyone who thinks differently hasn't looked at how life works. That a population that undergoes a huge increase crashes due to starvation and disease. This is observable from bacteria to humans. It could be Japan is entering a stable period where needs and resources are predictable and known. Sounds like a higher standard of living to me. The downside is the huge geriatric population will need more and more resources until that situation becomes part of the new stable norm.

Stagnant is how a capitalist mindset sees it. They can't stand that since their scam depends on unlimited growth. So of course any take on this from the stand point of greed would think its a terrible thing for a population to shrink to fit its resources not keep growing to allow ever increasing profits.

[–] Gewoonmoi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Isn't Tokyo to be one of the most affordable major, developed cities in the world? The article suggests that Japanese homes are exceptionally expensive.

[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 1 points 49 minutes ago

The tradition in japan is to level a house and build a new one. It was explained to me that very few have multigenerational single family dwellings. This would increase cost.

[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 30 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (3 children)

Taiwanese family living in Taiwan and frequent Japan prior to having kids and after having kids.

Most people are quick to point out the gruesome work culture, but honestly, that is just a small part of the total issue.

1- Japanese people culturally hate outsiders. So their immigration system is setup to almost never give a foreigner citizenship.

2- Japanese people culturally have a mindset that if you pop one out, it's you and only you that share that burden. That means that if you're on a train and struggling with a crying toddler that is tired of standing, nobody and I mean nobody will let you have their seat. Half the patrons will turn up their volume on their headset and the other half with mean mug/glare at you for annoying them. You wanna know the worst part. This mindset transcends to the kid's grandparents. That's right. The grandparents will not lift a finger to help you.

Edit: I also want to add that the burden is not even on the father, outside of the finances. The father does not need to help with any baby duties. I have met many Japanese men that has kids that has never even changed a diaper. Why the fuck would a Japanese woman want to have kids?

3- The government is not making it easy to help the families. Do you have a sleeping kid in a stroller? Well, you better hold the kid if you're using mass transit. Elevators are an afterthought. So once you get off a train, you either have to walk an extreme distance to get to an elevator or in some instances there isn't even an elevator at all. In some rare occasion there is a designated elevator for strollers and wheel chair access, it's jammed packed with people who is able-bodied and can take the escalator, all of which won't exit the elevator to let people with wheel chairs or strollers in.

I went to Osaka Universal studios and ask to rent a stroller. The guy didn't speak English at all. We eventually used my phone to translate and he asked me my kids age. I said 5. He said, is today his birthday? I said no. He turned 5 a few weeks ago. He then poceeds to deny me from renting a stroller. I reasoned with him telling him my kid is having major jet lag and needs a place to sleep right now. He told me to just go back to the hotel to sleep because he wasn't going to rent a stroller to me.

I love Japan and the Japanese people, but honestly they all hate kids.

[–] Gewoonmoi@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

All people are wired to 'hate' outsiders. Countries are forced to open up in order to keep economic growth going. The US needs to import people in order to keep the growth going on. The same with Western Europe. Japan basically took the economic stagnation and said no to opening itself up. I wonder whether that was mostly a top-down sort of decision or not.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

As someone who has always heard how nice Japanese people are, I'm surprised they hate kids that much.

[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago

They are courteous and very respectful. It's built into the culture and even their language. One simple sentence like hello, how are you have multiple ways of saying it depending on who you're addressing. Addressing incorrectly is very disrespectful. So the culture overly respectful.

[–] Techranger@infosec.pub 5 points 4 hours ago

This was very insightful, thank you for sharing!

[–] vane@lemmy.world 13 points 7 hours ago

Management issues... I know what can help... Introduce Agile.

[–] peaceful_world_view@lemmy.world 12 points 7 hours ago

People now realise that kids are a lot of hard work and fucking expensive.....and that yearly skiing holidays are fun.

[–] Shou@lemmy.world 26 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I'm sure artificially lowering female med student's grades to increase drop-outs amoung women will help with the financial stability and job security needed to raise a child!

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 11 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

There's also no support for women with children there, career wise

[–] Shou@lemmy.world 8 points 6 hours ago

South Korea allows women to be fired if they 1) want, or 2) have children.

[–] ItsJannnneee@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

I love Japan, but I will say it has its issues that often get overlooked. Workplace culture is horrific in Japan and it contributes to their high suicide rates. There's even a word in Japanese that specifically refers to a person dying from being overworked. I know friends who immigrated to Japan, only to regret it because they saw for themselves just how harsh the workplace culture was. Japanese people have no time for their family. Something must change or this problem is going to get worse but given it's a highly conservative culture I'm not sure it's going to see changes anytime soon.

[–] TinMod@lemmy.world 10 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Jokes on you

America has higher rates of overwork and suicide!

[–] markko@lemmy.world 9 points 5 hours ago

Yeah but it's not exactly fair to compare the US to a developed country

[–] SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Why is their workplace harsh?

Is it conservative because old people outnumber the young people and have for so long? You give a dominant demographic enough influence over time, they'll try to make the rest of society like them. Old.

Also, is it so old because Japan has a really high life expectancy? Or has that been taken into account?

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

It’s cultural. Japanese are less individualistic than the west. They live their lives that is more geared toward what will help the community and not just themselves. Less than hundred years ago they viewed their emperor as a living god. So back then the Japanese were indoctrinated to live their lives in service of the emperor. Basically how North Koreans treat their leader today, which is a cultural remnant from Japan since Korea was a Japanese colony. (That the imperial family are descendants from gods is an 8th century myth and was reintroduced during the Meiji restoration. Before the Meiji restoration the Japanese didn’t give a fuck about the imperial family)

So that cultural attitude still lives today in a watered down form. Instead of serving the emperor it’s about serving the community and country. And of course corporations can’t help themselves but to exploit that. That attitude has been fading with every generation after the war but it’s still so deeply ingrained that corporations can easily manipulate their workers.

[–] FalseDiamond@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 hours ago

It has two actually, karoshi and karojisatsu, death from being overworked and suicide from being overworked. Etimologically speaking, that gives you some idea of how big the problem is, kind of like the old adage about eskimos or inuits having six words for "snow".

[–] rekabis@programming.dev 65 points 16 hours ago (6 children)

In the context of Capitalism, sure, Japan is in trouble.

But then again, any system that demands infinite growth within a finite system has a biological parallel… in cancer. Yes, capitalism is economic cancer.

Japan has a bright future in front of it, if it can successfully pioneer an effective degrowth system that prioritizes the lives of people over Paraiste-Class profits.

[–] Arehandoro@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 hours ago

It can, but will it?

[–] Echofox@lemmy.ca 8 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Japans GDP has been almost flat since the mid 90s, they are not following the west's """infinite""" growth. Not that I'm saying capitalism isn't part of the problem, it absolutely is, just saying it isn't the entire story.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 8 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Outside of capitalism it is hard to function below replacement level because the young people have to take care of the elderly

[–] SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 7 hours ago

Oh no, having to spend time with my family oh nooo /s

If rent weren't so damn high and you didn't have such a squeeze on every moment of your life to make as much money too survive, spending time and supporting each other efficiently maybe wouldn't be a problem.

Values are defined by our parents? Is it a caste system? Is extended family more or less efficient? What is the goal: sustainability, B R E E D I N G, vacations, wealth compared to others, power over others, power over ourselves? Etc....

[–] MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml 15 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Young people would have time to take care of the elderly if they weren't forced to work 60+ hour weeks consistently

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[–] xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 14 hours ago

everyone keeps repeating that cancer metaphor, but a plague is much more appropriate….

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[–] mechoman444@lemmy.world 10 points 14 hours ago (7 children)

As an American (or at least a non Japanese native) if my boss came up to me yelling and swearing in my face I would punch him out cold.

Actually if more Japanese did this I think things would improve at the office.

[–] peaceful_world_view@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago

No you wouldn't, lol. You need your job for health care.

[–] localhost443@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 5 hours ago

American culture really has mastered being both violent and fragile

[–] Echofox@lemmy.ca 5 points 10 hours ago

Japanese are very against violence, and incidentally it's the safest first world country. And the work culture has been improving in the last decade or so - though not nearly fast enough.

[–] SolidShake@lemmy.world 7 points 11 hours ago

So you'd want to go to jail for a few months (several weeks at least) over someone yelling at you?

Shit I hope you don't get married or have a girlfriend or kids.

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[–] anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 81 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (3 children)

No one has time for family in Japan

When I watch yt videos about people leaving the workplace at 10pm, I wonder how suicide rate isn't way higher

[–] MonkeMischief@lemmy.today 49 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

This. I think there's so much to love about Japan, especially the cultural leaning towards doing everything with respect, dignity, and skill.

But the megacorpos definitely won in exploiting that, and the general social pressure revolving around workplace culture there is genuinely terrifying to me.

As a US person, our corporate-brainwash culture is awful too, but I'm glad we're seeing bigger working class pushes to tell our employers "Go kick rocks. My family is more important."

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[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 127 points 1 day ago (26 children)

You can tell capitalism is super efficient and sustainable by how it totally collapses without fresh babies to sacrifice.

[–] Rinox@feddit.it 6 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Thing is, we don't really know what's the reason for the current worldwide trend in much, much lower natality rate. We've observed in rich countries and poor countries, religious and atheist countries, capitalist and communist countries (both USSR and PRC, who have had very different economic systems), in countries with no safety nets but also in countries with large social programs, in western countries, but also in eastern countries.

The only thing I can think of these days is education level. Is it possible that education is inversely correlated with natality rates? Or maybe women in the workforce. I'm not arguing for either point, I'm just thinking about what the cause of a world-wide issue might be, because it's happening everywhere and seemingly without any clear common cause.

[–] DrSlippyNips@eviltoast.org 5 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

There's plenty of research out there that shows educating women leads to reduced rates of teenage pregnancy and total number of children. Like its pretty damn solid evidence that educating women helps them make informed family planning decisions.

I think a bigger problem is increasing infertility rates and how many people need to use IVF to conceive in the first place. Something worldwide is disrupting our hormones and affecting our ability to reproduce. Even if someone had everything they needed and wanted to support a child, they might not physically be able to create one or carry a pregnancy to term.

[–] Fluke@lemm.ee 3 points 5 hours ago

Nothing to do with the plastics and their additives building up in our bodies that act on the endocrine system, no sir.

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