Shit. They've realized the err of making high quality products with long lasting, universal ink. Capitalism blows
this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2025
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Hardware
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Best advice I can give about printers: If it works out of the box, it doesn't need a firmware update. Firmware updates for printers are only ever to screw third-party competition. I've owned my printer for years, and it's still in its OTB state. Coincidentally, I've never had a problem using third-party ink.
Nooooooo I thought they were the ones NOT doing that. That was kind of their USP for me...
Always disconnect any IoT devices you buy from the internet. Anything from cameras to switches to TVs to washing machines can and will be downgraded or killed at some point if you allow vendors to push updates without your consent.
It was only a matter of time, there isn't enough competition in the market to punish such actions.
Hmm. I wonder if the decline of printer use is a factor.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39089971
Consumer printers are a dying market, in case you havent noticed. Sales are trending down roughly 25% over the past decade. HP itself has seen its printer revenue drop from $29B in 2008 to $18B last year. Unit sales have seen a similar decline.
This is what desperation looks like. Nothing they can do will reverse the trend--its bigger than a single company. HP has its numbers to hit.. but are completely powerless to make it grow. So they do things like this, trying to slow the decline for themselves personally... but push more consumers away, accelerating the trend and the decline of their business.
Only $18B, boo Fkn hoo, the line must go up is a cancerous blight..
That number is revenue, we have no idea how much, if any, profit was made.
Outdated firmware about to be a top torrent of the week lmao
Asking because I know nothing of programming, how hard would it be to write a new firmware for a printer?
Reasonably difficult, I think. I'm basing my answer off of the vibes I get from open source firmware projects for routers, which are far more common. I haven't heard of similar for printers, which suggests that there is less of a foundation to work on. I think Brother, in particular, was a brand that has typically been decent up until now.
I also get the sense that programming firmware is different enough to programming software that a software developer trying to contribute would find it really difficult(?. Someone correct me if I'm wrong — I'm not a software developer, but a scientist who writes code, so I'm speaking outside of my main expertise). But this loops back in with the lack of existing projects making it harder to get to grips with how to do stuff — part of why I like open source programs is because I can look through a project and try to understand what the code is doing.
This is being widely reported, but I still haven’t been able to figure out exactly what printers and what firmwares this is applying to. I’ve got a brother laser printer, but it’s been unplugged for a few weeks now as I moved around my home office. I do usually use it on wi-fi for wireless network printing, but I haven’t tapped update on it for months. I would like to know what I should look for to identify if this is an issue for me.
Obviously I’ve got a few possible scenarios: 1 - my printer is updated past this firmware already: A. I can only buy brother toner B. I figure out to downgrade, which sounds tricky. C. I buy a new(old) printer? 2 - my printer isn’t updated: A. I turn off network functions on it entirely, printing using the USB port or with a USB cable. B. I block internet access on my network, but allow it to work locally. This is potentially risky if i do setup wrong or change my network config and forget about it. C. I say fuck it and only buy brother toner since it’s probably going to impact pricing either way
I'd put it behind a closed firewall with logging enabled. Your home router might be able to do this even. Then you can see if it's trying to connect to the Internet beyond NTP without you clicking "update".
I have a pi-hole. And my asus router can probably close all outbound traffic. I also think USB printing is fine tbh. I don’t need AirPrint.
Then you should do exactly that before it has the opportunity to download an "improved" firmware. Maybe create a DHCP reservation and matching firewall rule before connecting it to the home network. Good luck!
It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness.
Why does my printer need any connection to the internet ever? WTF does it need "firmware" for that is not related to criminal stalking and data collection? This sounds as stupid as IoT toasters and toilets.
Networked printers are very common, so if there is a vulnerability exposed to the network the printer can be exploited and infect other machines, or copy all printouts etc
Printers only need a LAN connection. There is no need to give them internet access.
The bigger concern is that infections can spread. Even if the printer isn’t accessible via WAN, something on the network will be. So if something else gets infected, it will be able to spread to the printer via LAN. Unless it’s the only thing on the network, LAN-only won’t fully protect it from infection.
And once it’s infected, you have a rogue device on your network. It can use things like UPnP to access the WAN, turning it into a node for someone’s botnet.
Set some firewall rules. The printer doesn't need to be able to make any outbound connections. It only needs inbound connections on a few ports to work.
I feel like you glossed over the “you have a rogue device on your network” side of things. Even if it can’t reach the internet directly, it will still quietly sit there and try to infect every other device on your network.
If you’re not in the habit of updating your firmware, (and in this case, you’re actively defeating firmware updates), that infection can quickly snowball.
Isn’t the concern that if you infect a printer locally, you can use that to “pivot” to another device on that network that IS connected to the internet?
I see your point, I hadn't thought about it this way. I think what you're suggesting is this:
| |
| rest of LAN <-/
I don’t really understand your snippet. But yeah i think the issue with IoT devices having connection to any other network device at all is that if they have a security hole that can be exploited through a malicious USB drive or BT or any other compromised device it can connect to, that it can act maliciously in a number of ways. The only true security for devices that can’t get patched is a complete air gap for any connected devices.
My LaserJet is from '08 and still works great with just a USB (or parallel port... lol). It even does an occasional toner transfer or transparency for printed circuit boards. They making 17+ year printers any more
It is nice to have a discoverable printer on the network that anyone can print to from their laptop or phone. I use that feature all the time, especially on d&d nights
A Linux PC connected to the printer can advertise it to LAN with CUPS.
WTF does it need “firmware” for
Printing, pretty much every printer ever made has firmware. Your keyboard probably has a firmware.
Pretty sure in this context it's referring to firmware updates. Which is how Brother screwed over their existing customers
Apparently the quotes were not enough to make the oversimplification blatantly obvious
Everything with a processor has firmware. Unless you're running a screw type press to print from your PC then your printer has firmware.
Obviously, but a state machine is not a filesystem as the connectedness implies
So that's why my printer nags me to update firmware.
I was recently considering replacing my color laser printer from 2006...sounds like I'm keeping it a little longer. It's coincidentally made by brother, but I doubt they're updating that firmware anytime soon.
Brother eww.
Accused? It happened, what’s the accusation?
God fucking damnit, same shit different shitty company. Thanks for informing, I'll never recommend this brand again.
All corporations are out to exploit you any way possible. None of them are to be trusted to behave in an ethical manner.
Glad I decided against brother printer recently. How Kyocera doesn't follow, so far it seems fine?