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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by zutto@lemmy.fedi.zutto.fi to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world

I just started using this myself, seems pretty great so far!

Clearly doesn't stop all AI crawlers, but a significantly large chunk of them.

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[-] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 71 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It's a clever solution but I did see one recently that IMO was more elegant for noscript users. I can't remember the name but it would create a dummy link that human users won't touch, but webcrawlers will naturally navigate into, but then generates an infinitely deep tree of super basic HTML to force bots into endlessly trawling a cheap-to-serve portion of your webserver instead of something heavier. Might have even integrated with fail2ban to pick out obvious bots and keep them off your network for good.

[-] zutto@lemmy.fedi.zutto.fi 24 points 2 years ago

If you remember the project I would be interested to see it!

But I've seen some AI poisoning sink holes before too, a novel concept as well. I have not heard of real world experiences of them yet.

[-] ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml 31 points 2 years ago

I'm assuming they're thinking about this

A pseudonymous coder has created and released an open source “tar pit” to indefinitely trap AI training web crawlers in an infinitely, randomly-generating series of pages to waste their time and computing power. The program, called Nepenthes after the genus of carnivorous pitcher plants which trap and consume their prey, can be deployed by webpage owners to protect their own content from being scraped or can be deployed “offensively” as a honeypot trap to waste AI companies’ resources.

Which was posted here a while back

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[-] paperd@lemmy.zip 16 points 2 years ago

That's a tarpit that you're describing, like iocaine or nepthasis. Those are to feed the crawler junk data to try and make their eventual output bad.

Anubis tries to not let the AI crawlers in at all.

[-] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

generates an infinitely deep tree

Wouldn't the bot simply limit the depth of it's seek?

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 8 points 2 years ago

It could be infinitely wide too if they desired. It shouldn't be that hard to do I wouldn't think. I would suspect they limit the time a chain can use though to eventually escape out, though this still protects data because it obfuscates legitimate data that it wants. The goal isn't to trap them forever. It's to keep them from getting anything useful.

[-] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 2 years ago

That would be reasonable. The people running these things aren't reasonable. They ignore every established mechanism to communicate a lack of consent to their activity because they don't respect others' agency and want everything.

[-] randomblock1@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago

Why Sha256? Literally every processor has a crypto accelerator and will easily pass. And datacenter servers have beefy server CPUs. This is only effective against no-JS scrapers.

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It requires a bunch of browser features that non-user browsers don't have, and the proof-of-work part is like the least relevant piece in this that only gets invoked once a week or so to generate a unique cookie.

I sometimes have the feeling that as soon as some crypto-currency related features are mentioned people shut off part of their brain. Either because they hate crypto-currencies or because crypto-currency scammers have trained them to only look at some technical implementation details and fail to see the larger picture that they are being scammed.

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[-] enemenemu@lemm.ee 23 points 2 years ago

Meaning it wastes time and power such that it gets expensive on a large scale? Or does it mine crypto?

[-] zutto@lemmy.fedi.zutto.fi 37 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yes, Anubis uses proof of work, like some cryptocurrencies do as well, to slow down/mitigate mass scale crawling by making them do expensive computation.

https://lemmy.world/post/27101209 has a great article attached to it about this.

--

Edit: Just to be clear, this doesn't mine any cryptos, just uses same idea for slowing down the requests.

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[-] lemonuri@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I did not find any instruction on the source page on how to actually deploy this. That would be a nice touch imho.

[-] d0ntpan1c@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 2 years ago

There are some detailed instructions on the docs site, tho I agree it'd be nice to have in the readme, too.

Sounds like the dev was not expecting this much interest for the project out of nowhere so there will def be gaps.

[-] JustAnotherKay@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Or even a quick link to the relevant portion of the docs at least would be cool

[-] SanndyTheManndy@lemmy.kya.moe 3 points 2 years ago

The docker image page has it

[-] Goretantath@lemm.ee 17 points 2 years ago

I think the maze approach is better, this seems like it hurts valid users if the web more than a company would be.

[-] N0x0n@lemmy.ml 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

For those not aware, nepenthes is an example for the above mentioned approach !

[-] BackgrndNoize@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

This looks like it can can actually fuck up some models, but the unnecessary CPU load it will generate means most websites won't use it unfortunately

[-] danielquinn@lemmy.ca 14 points 2 years ago

It's a rather brilliant idea really, but when you consider the environmental implications of forcing web requests to ensure proof of work to function, this effectively burns a more coal for every site that implements it.

[-] zutto@lemmy.fedi.zutto.fi 30 points 2 years ago

You have a point here.

But when you consider the current worlds web traffic, this isn't actually the case today. For example Gnome project who was forced to start using this on their gitlab, 97% of their traffic could not complete this PoW calculation.

IE - they require only a fraction of computational cost to serve their gitlab, which saves a lot of resources, coal, and most importantly, time of hundreds of real humans.

(Source for numbers)

Hopefully in the future we can move back to proper netiquette and just plain old robots.txt file!

I don't think AI companies care, and I wholeheartedly support any and all FOSS projects using PoW when serving their websites. I'd rather have that than have them go down

[-] computergeek125@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

Found the FF14 fan lol
The release names are hilarious

[-] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

What's the ffxiv reference here?

Anubis is from Egyptian mythology.

[-] PumaStoleMyBluff@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

The names of release versions are famous FFXIV Garleans

[-] mannycalavera@feddit.uk 5 points 2 years ago

Upvote for the name and tag line alone!

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this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2025
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