this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2023

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Why "kbin"? (kbin.social)

submitted 1 year ago by Potatomache@kbin.social to c/kbinMeta@kbin.social

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Hi there! So I'm two weeks in to kbin and I think I have a layman's understanding of the fediverse, but I'm still not the most technical person, so I thought I'd just post my questions here.

So I know "fediverse" stands for federated universe, so does "kbin" also stand for something? I tried checking the FAQ but the about page just tells me it's a link aggregator, and google links me to a Japanese manufacturing site or those birth name meaning/ancestry sites. (can anyone tell me if lemmy also stands for something or is this just a word the developers came up with?)

Regarding defederation, does it affect previous posts? If there's a thread with comments by multiple people under different instances, does defederating break the chain?

In fact who "owns" a thread? Like, in which instance is it stored? If someone posts on kbin, and people from lemmy and beehaw comment on it, does kbin "keep" all of those stored away or do they stay in their respective instances?

And am I correct in thinking that instances who defederate essentially block off an instance, but that instance can still see their posts, but not interact? ie. Instance A defederates from B, so they can't see/interact with B, but B can still see A but not interact with them? Or is it a mutual blocking? Ergo they both can't see nor interact. I know beehaw defederated with lemmy recently, so...?

The whole concept of defederating is just so interesting to me. I know I have to read more about it but those were mostly my main questions.

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[–] CynAq@kbin.social 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I think the name kbin, which is officially /kbin, is a play on the term /sbin, which is a system directory on unix based systems that houses binary files which require root privileges to run.

I don't know how @ernest got from /sbin to /kbin though. Maybe he told the story somewhere but I haven't seen it.

[–] Potatomache@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, I was hoping I could find an old post from him regarding the name, but google just shows me code, and I didn't want to bother him because I imagine he's busy. 😅

[–] princessofcute@kbin.social 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

He talked about it on the polish instance. Someone accused him of some serious stuff and he explained where all the naming came from in the comments: https://karab.in/m/fediverse/p/217281/The-reason-for-the-strange-naming-and-uncomfortable-images-on#post-comment-311421

[–] nevernevermore@kbin.social 32 points 1 year ago

Wow he handled those outlandish claims with tact. Imagine not understanding something and immediately deciding that it’s ammophilia and naziism

[–] Chozo@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's a pretty solid response, IMO. The OP in that thread is clearly reaching and looking for an argument when there isn't one to be made. I'm not the type to accuse somebody of being "triggered", but they're definitely overreacting. The fact that they have to reference a .png of a storm trooper and a still frame from Monty Python as their "evidence" speaks volumes.

I hope they find an instance that's more suited to their sensibilities.

[–] Kill_joy@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

For real. Ernest handled that shit like a boss. Very cool to see.

[–] CynAq@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

I'm still hung up on the association of the word "magazine" with firearms before publications.

In the context of a discussion forum, how do you skip over the very obvious meaning unless you are looking for dogwhistles in everything.

I am also as sensitive as any social justice conscious person to known dogwhistles, but looking for them in a conspiratorial manner is a bit too much I think.

[–] minnieo@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

he did say something like this, i think in relation to linux or something

[–] niktemadur@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The "k" could be for k-hole?

I remember many years ago, there was a popular Blogspot-style page called Internet K-Hole that did periodic massive dumps of random found photos from the 70s and 80s. Back in those days of slow DSL, the page took minutes to load. All images were old and from scans. Many Polaroids. Some of the images were pretty faded, giving a sense of patina. In some the camera was out of focus, so they were blurry. Peppered throughout were scans from erotic magazines that were already defunct at the time, such as Oui, Chic, High Society, Gallery, etc.

Internet K-Hole was the first page of its' type and size with that kitschy aesthetic sense. Whenever there was an update of images, word spread around the forums of the day, like Boing Boing and Slashdot.

[–] quantum_hampster@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lol wow I never knew about that internet k-hole.

While I did jokingly think k-hole, I was thinking about the one referring to when someone takes massive amounts of ketamine lol

[–] niktemadur@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Absolutely, every iteration of the term k-hole is making reference to that ketamine state. And now there's a drug we haven't heard about in a while.

Remember the band Placebo? They had a lyric:
"No hesitation
No delay
You come on just like Special K"

That sounds scary as fuck.
Now, I think the k-hole refers to a bad trip, where you just disappear into a ketamine-induced void for two or three eternities.

Yeah, no thanks, I ain't touching that with somebody else's hundred-foot pole. Same goes for stuff like Jimson Weed, Salvia Divinorum and Amanita Muscaria mushrooms.

[–] Arotrios@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Kbin is the software that runs the instance. Kbin.social is the instance (running on Kbin) run by its developers. Instances in the Fediverse can run on multiple types of content management frameworks, the most popular of which is Lemmy.

When an instance defederates from another instance, it stops talking to it. It stops reading and copying the defederated instance's posts and comments. The posts still exist on the original instance, and if posted before defederation, still exists on the copying instance. However, the two copies are no longer connected, so if someone posts a comment on the original post in the original instance after defederation, the defederated instance will not see it. Likewise if someone posts a comment on the copy of your post on the defederated instance, it will only be available on that instance, and not copied back to your original post on the original instance.

Essentially, the content fragments into two copies when defederation occurs, with each separately hosted and no longer in synch in terms of likes, boosts and comments.

I'm uncertain whether defederation is always a two way street. It's my undertanding that if instance A defederates from instance B, instance B can still read A's content unless it chooses to defederate from A as well. However, as instance A isn't accepting input from instance B, nothing that happens on instance B (comments, likes, boosts) will be shared with A.

[–] Potatomache@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So... Each instance has a copy of all the other instances' content? I thought they just had access to each other's content but not a copy?

If they each have a copy then how would refederation work? I assume they just sync back together. So if instance A has a post with several comment threads on it from other instances, and B defederates, then it gets a copy of the post. If the original author on A decides to delete their post, then their post stays on B's instance, but if B refederates, does their copy of that post repopulate or does it sync up to be deleted?

[–] LambentMote 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There's no retroactive syncing. So a refederated instance would start seeing any new content from the moment federation is switched back on. It's the same if you're the first user to subscribe to a community on another instance (from your instance). Until that moment your instance doesn't know the community exists but one a user subscribes your instance starts copying new content from that community and other users from your instance will start seeing that content in 'all'.

[–] Potatomache@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ohhhh, I see. So it's only by the users subscribing to other communities that the instance is populated with content from other instances?

[–] Arotrios@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Your questions sent me down the rabbit hole...

The answer is yes, it works that way, but it's not the only way. The protocol that the Fediverse uses is ActivityPub, and:

In ActivityPub, two servers are federated with each other when there is a relationship between one or more actors on each. A common relationship is following: an actor on one server follows an actor on another server. From there, a whole set of other activities are opened up, like when the followed actor posts a Note or Video, the follower’s account receives a notification (in the form of a Create activity).

Some data are tracked on both sides of the relationship. For example, if @chris follows @georgie, that relationship is tracked both as a record on example1.org (georgie is in chris’s following collection) and on example2.net (chris is in georgie’s followers collection).

So, if you subscribe to a magazine / community on another instance, follow a person on another instance, or comment on a post on another instance, you're creating a data record that connects the two instances. When a server defederates from an instance, they prevent it from creating their half of data record on their server via a blacklist.

Sauce

[–] chris@fedia.io 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I assume you didn't specifically mention me with the fedia.io domain... yet here I am. So that appears to be a bug as Kbin notified me.

[–] Arotrios@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lol - nope - looks like it picked up on the @chris in the link I copied/pasted - which actually goes to https://kbin.social/u/@chris@example1.org . Kinda odd that it reparsed it as being from fedia.io and notified you.

[–] chris@fedia.io 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, there's a bug there then. The georgie you mentioned came through with no domain at all, probably because there's no @georgie
I've raised a bug report: https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/597

[–] Brkdncr@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because you were invited to the naming party but you did t show up.

[–] IONLYpost@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I would be happy to get invited though.

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