Good. Fuck religious indoctrination among the kids.
this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2025
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It gets even worse, once the 'gods chosen people' and 'dirty heathens' discussions start. Kids have no filter. I'm speaking of all abrahamic religions and a a good chunk of everything else.
God sure does enact genocides on his "chosen people" quite often. I guess religious nuts sometimes forget what they're chosen for lol.
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Agreed, and this goes for any religion that does it. But what really grinds my gears about (other) leftists defending this kind of religious expression is, this isn't something women choose. They're forced to and groomed from young age to cover themselves. Meanwhile, their brothers, fathers, sons all walk around free to wear shorts, t-shirts, etc. If men had to cover themselves the same way, then sure, at least there would be some level of equality. This is just plain old misogyny that has no place in modern societies.
However, with that said, there's a real possibility banning head coverings would ultimately hurt girls, instead of helping them. Good education and financial independence and stability in adulthood would give these girls a better and safer way to escape. Like with any other societal problem, it's complex and can't be simply "magiced" away.
But what really grinds my gears about (other) leftists defending this kind of religious expression is, this isn't something women choose.
How do you know that?
They're forced to and groomed from young age to cover themselves.
That's... kind of how all parenting works? You could legit say "they're forced to and groomed from young age to X" and replace X with anything you want and it'll work so you're not really saying much.
This is just plain old misogyny that has no place in modern societies.
Yeah here's the thing: Freedom of conscience means freedom of conscience, even when you don't like that conscience. If misogyny is reason enough for you to take a sledgehammer to this core pillar of democratic society then go ahead, but know that fascists can use that same sledgehammer against whatever beliefs you have that they don't like.
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I think that's a misinterpretation of the concepts of Freedom of Religion and Laicity (freedom from religion).
In the French understanding, laicity means that no representative of the State is allowed to show their religion, or treat people differently according to their religion / political orientation. Traditionally it even extended further : for example teachers would refrain from exposing their religion / political views because they recognized the influence they held on their community, and that being outspoken is unfair to those who do not share those views.
That being said, the Burqa laws are an attempt to place that burden on the users of the services of the State. It's pretty toxic because they should be served equally, which obviously they can't be when you write laws that target one specific group over others.
The attempt to place the blame on parents is equally toxic. You have the freedom to raise your kids the way you see fit : having a conscience is not illegal. If that leads them to do illegal stuff, well that's when the law comes in, but not before.
It's all fun and games until the next fascist administration uses the same Burqa laws to prohibit whatever you hold dear.
It's all fun and games until the next fascist administration uses the same Burqa laws to prohibit whatever you hold dear.
Yeah, next they'll be saying something like "kids shouldn't bring life-like replica guns to school" or something equally authoritarian.
The horror.
That's a great joke. I'm sure there's no reasonable scenario you could have picked instead of that one.
It's not like some places in the world are prohibiting discourse about homosexuality or the criticism of religion, under the same guise of "protecting children from indoctrination".
It's not like some places in the world are prohibiting discourse about homosexuality or the criticism of religion, under the same guise of "protecting children from indoctrination".
I am Finnish. Neither of those are in any way forbidden or avoided?
You're pretending — in bad faith — that this is some authoritarian bullshit. It isn't. It's perfectly reasonable not to allow kids to cover their faces. I wasn't allowed to in school in the 90's either.
Again, hijabs are completely fine.
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And you'll solve that by telling them they can't dress the way they want? How does that work, exactly?
You think the kids are the ones insisting they want to be covered up? It's the parents who are doing it. Take that ability away from the parents and the kids DGAF
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In the previous comment I was replying to you in this post, you were just asking someone how would you know what they want to wear?
Try wearing a burka for a day and report back how you like it.
But they are allowed to wear whatever they want — within reason. You have to cover your genitals at least, that's usually a minimum. And you're not allowed to cover your entire face. Between those two rules, I'm sure you can come up with something you'll like.
Hijabs are still completely fine, btw.
Those are the ones that a cultural argument can be made for and I definitely see how one can also definitely want to wear them. But burka or niqab? C'mon who are you lying to?
I always love the irony when people worry that others are being dictated on how to dress so they then themselves dictate to people how they can dress.
I always love the irony when people making such comments are unable to understand that setting SOME dressing rules in schools and working places is absolutely NOT the same as the dictation of wearing distinct clothing anytime and anywhere. The latter has far bigger restrictive impact on your freedom of expression.
This puts a lot of pressure on Muslim girls and places them in a further disadvantaged position compared to not only Christians, but even to Muslim boys.
Also, while Finnish schools are expected maintain confessional neutrality, display of a cross somehow doesn't count.
Fuck religion. Embrace personal experience over dogmatic teachings.
Every finn should get an emotional support burka.
This is pure and simple Islamophobia and racism. Their head dressings do not detract from anyone's learning including their own. This is like banning hair dye because it might "disturb and distract" other students. Bullshit.
Freedom of religion until we don't like it.
Why should there be freedom of religion any more? What does religion do?
Why should a state be allowed to dictate what people believe?
Because freedom of religion is pretty much just a special case of freedom of thought and conscience? Unless you want the state to use its monopoly on violence to punish people for wrongthink, freedom of religion is here to stay.
Why should there be freedom of religion any more?
This is an argument that will lead to you being forced into being a christian.
What do you have in mind? Maybe we should start rounding up people for having the wrong belief
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