this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
439 points (97.2% liked)

politics

19120 readers
2545 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Donald Trump has launched a fresh tirade on both the judge and his chief court clerk in his New York civil fraud trial just hours after a gag order banning him from criticising court personnel was paused.

Judge Arthur Engoron had issued the gag order in the case after the former president made a series of false and disparaging remarks about his chief clerk of court Allison Greenfield both to reporters outside the courtroom and on his Truth Social account.

Mr Trump had already violated the gag order twice and incurred $15,000 in fines as a result.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Cyberflunk@lemmy.world 187 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Anyone else would be in jail.

[–] cybersandwich@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago (2 children)

He knows he can't win, so he is trying to provoke the judge. The judge is smart enough to realize that and he isn't going to be manipulated. He's going to let Trump hang himself and dissolve his company and expose him as the fraud he is.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He knows he can’t win

Sure about that? He's still not in jail or officially disqualified from the presidency.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (16 replies)
[–] Red_October@lemmy.world 116 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honestly the only surprising thing gleaned here is the notion that the gag order was actually working in the first place.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 53 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It was. The point was to protect the staff, and the less he can talk about them, the safer they were (his base have the attention span of gnats).

[–] brothershamus@kbin.social 91 points 1 year ago (3 children)

But on Thursday, Associate Justice David Friedman of the state’s intermediate appeals court agreed to temporarily lift the gag order, “considering the constitutional and statutory rights at issue”.

Now, Mr Trump is able to speak freely about court staff while the longer appeals process plays out.

Justice Friedman, you done fucked up. Are you an idiot? Jesus.

[–] brothershamus@kbin.social 61 points 1 year ago (1 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Friedman_(judge)

Apparently he's about 73, so maybe the whole stochastic terrorism thing trump does via social media is really foreign to him. Still - perhaps some of the legal aids in his office could, y'know, asplain.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Surely, this man has some shred of human decency." —David Friedman's inner monologue

[–] AmberPrince@kbin.social 30 points 1 year ago

Narrator: He did not.

[–] HarkMahlberg@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

Comey: " 'Will nobody rid me of this meddlesome priest?' "
Friedman: "But what do priests have to do with this?" 🤔

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe not. During the appeals process, the prosecution can point out exactly what happened when the appeal was temporarily lifted. It will help give the appellate judge cover when he reinstates the order.

And let's be clear, Trump wins either way. Either the appeal works, his gag order is permanently lifted, and he can continue to publicly assault the institutions trying to hold him to account. Or the gag order gets upheld, which can feed his persecution complex and the narrative that everyone is out to get him.

(I mean, there are lots of people who are out to get him, but their job is to go after criminals, and he is one....)

[–] BigMcLargeHuge@mstdn.social 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

@dhork @brothershamus

I'm sure her family will take great comfort after her death/injury knowing that the burnt orange shitgibbon was effectively, practically, given a pass on things that would put everyone else in the US under a jail.

[–] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Friedman is obviously on the take

[–] ThePantser@lemmy.world 68 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Why was it lifted? Good behavior? The judge should reinstate it immediately.

[–] noride@lemm.ee 44 points 1 year ago

It wasn't really lifted, it was stayed by an appellate judge while Trump's appeal plays out.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Complicit appellate judge.

[–] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

Appellate judge.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 62 points 1 year ago (1 children)

His Ridiculous and Unconstitutional Gag Order, not allowing me to defend myself against him and his politically biased and out of control, Trump Hating Clerk

But you defend yourself in the court room, not outside of it

[–] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's how it's done for most people. This man has clearly lived in the court of public opinion his entire life.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] deejaypanini@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago

Who could have predicted this? 🤯

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The reason Trump got so fucked in this trial was because his lawyers neglected to ask for a jury trial like he usually does, now he's actually bound by a judge who understands the law rather than jurors he can emotionally manipulate.

It seems like Trump is trying to build a case in the court of public opinion, but not a legally valid one, that this is just persecution because of personal and political reasons. And he's going to do it by making the judge hate him, in hopes that he can overturn his fuck up. I just don't think that," the judge treated me unfairly because I insulted his staff" is a very compelling argument.

Frankly, if he was anyone else he would probably be thrown in prison for contempt of court by now.

[–] Cyberflunk@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think he did it on purpose, because he knew he'd loose, and now he gets a media spectacle.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] cybersandwich@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yea loose rhymes with noose.

[–] quaddo@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And lose rhymes with no-

Er.

Let me get back to you on that.

[–] mycatiskai@lemmy.one 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Is it time for the $100,000 fine followed by the $1 million fine

[–] kmartburrito@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They should inflate the fine to the same percentage that the trump family inflated the value of his assets.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

So if the appeals court needs one reason to reinstate the gag order with a vengeance, this should be it.

[–] NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The American justice system, neutered by a greasy Cheeto-dusted dipshit.

[–] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Its the money. Money neuters justice and Trump is proving you can do literally everything else wrong, but with enough money, justice will pause for you. If he was smart enough to shut up when it's beneficial, he'd probably have a measurable chance to evade justice completely.

[–] voracitude@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This man is not qualified for the presidency of the United States.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4591133

Page 17:

V. The persons who framed Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment regarded the President of the United States as an officer of the United States

The President of the United States was among the officials who took the oath to the Constitution that under Section Three triggered disqualification for participating in an insurrection. As noted in the previous section, the persons responsible for the Fourteenth Amendment sought to bar from present and future office all persons who betrayed their constitutional oath. “All of us understanding the meaning of the third section,” Senator John Sherman of Ohio stated, “those men who have once taken an oath of office to support the Constitution of the United States and have Fourteenth Amendment distinguished between the presidential oath mandated by Article II and violated that oath in spirit by taking up arms against the Government of the United States are to be deprived for a time at least of holding office.” No member of the Congress that drafted the the oath of office for other federal and state officers mandated by Article VI. Both were oaths to support the Constitution. Senator Garrett Davis of Kentucky saw no legal difference between the constitutional requirement that “all officers, both Federal and State, should take an oath to support” the Constitution and the constitutional requirement that the president “take an oath, to the best of his ability to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.” Senator James Doolittle of Wisconsin declared that Congress need not pass laws requiring presidents to swear to support the Constitution because that “oath is specified in the constitution.”

In fact, the exact question of whether the disqualification from public office covered the Presidency came up at the time the Fourteenth Amendment was being drafted: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/lsb/lsb10569

Specifically:

One scholar notes that the drafting history of Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment suggests that the office of the President is covered:

During the debate on Section Three, one Senator asked why ex-Confederates “may be elected President or Vice President of the United States, and why did you all omit to exclude them? I do not understand them to be excluded from the privilege of holding the two highest offices in the gift of the nation.” Another Senator replied that the lack of specific language on the Presidency and Vice- Presidency was irrelevant: “Let me call the Senator’s attention to the words ‘or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States.’”

I’ll highlight that last bit again:

Another Senator replied that the lack of specific language on the Presidency and Vice- Presidency was irrelevant: “Let me call the Senator’s attention to the words ‘or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States.’”

That is from this paper: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3748639

Some people seem to have a lot of trouble with figuring out what "or" means, in a list of things.

[–] tiita@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Why is this guy not behind bars already and he's allowed to run for president is beyond me

[–] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

You're guilty all the same

Too sick to be ashamed

You want to point your finger

But there's no one else to blame

You're guilty all the same

[–] jafo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Trump on the stand, being fined for talking about the clerk: I wasn't talking about the clerk, I was talking about Michael Cohen. ... Gag order gets lifted. So anyway, what I was saying about the clerk...

load more comments
view more: next ›