this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Germany worked very hard over the past decades to lose all credibility in the Middle East. From tiptoeing around the Iraq invasion, over empty calls and threats during the earlier stages of the Syrian War, from making big announcements to uphold the JCPOA after the US broke the agreement and then just falling into US line until now where Germany remains unwilling to acknowledge the possibility of Israeli war crimes and continueing to support Israel "beyond all questions" as Scholz said.

Nobody in the Middle East takes Germany seriously and everybody knows, that in the end Germany will fall in line with whatever the US says, so any agreements made with Germany could just as well be made with the US instead.

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sure... if you start at your deeply ingrained believe that Germany is always wrong, to then find "arguments" from there, it makes perfect sense that not supporting the US line in Iraq and supporting the US line in Israel are magicallly the same thing.

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

Germany was very much in line with the Iraq invasion. We didn't provide boots on the ground, but US army bases in Germany were used extensively for logistics and the German army was aiding in the defense of these bases as well as in surveillance operations. And Merkel, who became chancelor in 2005 was in favor of Germany also commiting troops to the Iraq invasion in 2003.

The Iraq invasion is the same in terms of international law like the russian invasion of Ukraine. An illegal foreign invasion. But instead of calling the US out on it, demanding sanctions or at least forbid and enforce no war efforts going through army bases in Germany, the government decided to let the US reign freely and even protect their back, while they are busy invading.

[–] Sigmatics@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As a German myself, you have to acknowledge that in terms of military/power politics, we're mostly just a US lapdog

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago

I agree and find it tremendously stupid. I believe Europe would fare much better, if the EU integrated as a power bloc, keeping foreign interference out, be it US, Russian or Chinese. That includes finding compromise on building a unified foreign and defense policy.

Otherwise we'll be eroded in the foreseeable future, which has tremendous negative implications for the well being, safety and wealth of all Europeans.

[–] branchial@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago

Remember when the NSA under Obama was caught spying on Merkel's mobile? Most Germans don't.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Her primary goal was to alleviate civilian suffering in Gaza and work towards freeing hostages that Hamas took from Israel during its initial attack.

"Not calling for an end to the war, supporting Israel with weapons, encourages it to continue its aggression against our people in Gaza," Mohammad Shtayyeh, the Palestinian prime minister, said in a statement following Baerbock's visit to the West Bank.

Germany has stayed away from calls for a ceasefire, which would "only benefit the Hamas terrorists who can strengthen," Michael Roth, who chairs the parliamentary foreign affairs committee, told public broadcaster ZDF.

The German position has favored "humanitarian pauses" instead, while it is important that "Israel manages to defeat Hamas," Chancellor Olaf Scholz has said.

Observers will be watching closely for any repeat of last year's embarrassing moment for Scholz, when he hosted Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

Although Hamas will have been weakened physically, Schindler said its ideology could live on, leaving Israel β€” and its allies like Germany β€” no option but to keep working towards this long-term goal.


The original article contains 740 words, the summary contains 174 words. Saved 76%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] RidderSport@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So, who would be an honest broker then? One that has the leverage and international standing to actually mediate between countries? No country in Arabia for sure, leaving European countries, the USA, China, India, Russia, South-Korea, Japan and Australia.

Some of these countries aren't at all interested in foreign disputes, some have their own agenda (looking at you Russia and China)

[–] kommerzbert@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

From the news I have been reading the few last year's (not on the Gaza conflict, but on the war in Ukraine) Brazil seemed to be interestedinto being a broker. Maybe here as well?

[–] RidderSport@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

So, how good do you think Brazilian Isrealian relations are? Remember, whatever deal you make between countries, no one can force you to uphold them (best example Russia with their Minsk 1 and 2 treaties)

[–] branchial@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What would chinas agenda be? They're the ones with the best track record sofar in condemning the genocide and cracking down on Muslim rightwing extremism.

[–] RidderSport@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not sure islamist djihadism has any political affiliation.

Anyway, China never does anything without an agenda. Remember the "help" in SEA and Africa? Yeah, they gave money, sure, to exploit the countries, legally that is.

[–] brainrein@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have any records on the harm China did to those countries so far?

[–] Alfonsio@feddit.de -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

China is also committing their own genocide against minorities, one of them the Uyghurs with concentration camps, forced sterilization and forbidding people to practice their religion.

As a Palestinian I can tell you that we’re not interested in exchanging Israeli occupation for Iranian, Russian or Chinese occupation.

Unfortunately I don’t know who’d be a real and credible ally. I feel strong support from many Latin American countries, the Irish, Scottish, South Africans. But do they have enough influence to broker something? I don’t think so

[–] branchial@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

The Uyghur genocide is a fabrication by anticommunist thinktanks from the US. Most notably it depends on the works of a single man, Adrian Zenz. There was no forced sterilization, people are free to practice their religion as long as it doesn't call for political revolution.

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Wait guys! What about Jared Kushner? He's tOtAlLy qUaLiFiEd to be a diplomat! The conservatives said so!

They swore he was the perfect person to broker middle east peace! So, let's just give him a little ringy ding ding! If he's half as smart as conservatives say he is, he'll probably cure cancer over there too!