A community for discussing events around the World
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF OCTOBER 19 2025
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
But this is capitalism. If German manufacturers can’t compete, they should shut down. Survival of the fittest and free-markets etc etc. there will be job losses but the German people should ask their leaders why that happened
Exactly. They insisted China become capitalist then complain when they do capitalism.
Article doesn't really point to Chinese vehicles being the primary reason though- it's that demand is down for cars in Europe.
That said, it's not really free market capitalist anyway for China to heavily subsidize EV production.
Chinese car makers aren't really more subsidized than Europeans and US. Actually we're only seeing the brands that survived the internal competition of the Chinese car market, where a ton of brands failed and died.
What we're seeing are the brands that survived that competition through extreme optimization, at a level no other car manufacturer had to reach before. And they did that in a growing market of 1.5 billion people.
Why should they struggle when competing with an aging industry with aging production modes that only address ~600m people? Especially when those companies offer objectively worse products at worse prices?
"Objectively"
And just because China had companies go under doesn't mean they aren't still subsidized to the hilt.
I do enjoy though people that are normally pro Union, pro worker, etc. essentially arguing that these people's jobs don't matter and we'll take subsidized foreign cars just because they're cheaper.
You think European car brands aren't subsidized?
And this has nothing to do with struggling European car brands? https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-relent-combustion-engines-ban-after-auto-industry-pressure-2025-12-16/
Lol you speak as if teslas haven't been heavily subsidized for decades. The difference is that chinese ev's are cheaper and deliver good quality.
Teslas are American and of course have been subsidized. But the article is about Volkswagen and German companies...
A fair argument can be made that the Chinese government considers EV an imperative and interferes and subsidizes, so it's not fully free market. Thus any country with industry competing with China needs to decide if they care and if they care, how to respond to advantage conferred by China government policies. Whether that's similar incentives for their domestic industry and/or tariffs to try to level the playing field.
Volkswagen was a state funded company until the sixties ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
New factories, battery research and stuff like that are heavily subsidized for German car makers as well.
Maybe China is subsidizing more, but maybe that only speaks for sound economic decisions in China, like
A. they have the money, apparently
B. they subsidize future technologies instead of fabulating about e-fuels and whatnot.
Volkswagen gets a lot of bad rep but as I understand it, it's not a horrible company. They have a very strong worker union. To my understanding they can't close a factory in Germany without a union's approval. That in itself is a huge handicap over BYD where workers get far fewer rights.
Volkswagen used to be one of the largest exporters from the EU. If I were a liberal foreign entity then I'd love for some dirt to stick to that. They have continued to focus on keeping their German workforce employed rather than producing everything overseas though they were proud to announce that they could do a full car development and production cycle in China a few years back so things do change.
Not that I care too much for the brand but I find it very odd how Volkswagen is getting so much hate.
If we want a closer apples to apples comparison, we should at least demand that our imports have been produced under the same environmental and workplace standards as we have here or better.
it's not a horrible company
😅. It was literally started by Hitler himself.
"But that was a long time ago"...yeah, well. Then give BYD some ~50ish years, by then BYD might be as righteous as Volkswagen is now...cough Dieselgate, cough.
That's only a "fair" argument to make if one assumes that orthodox neoliberal policies such as the EU's ban on state aid are somehow the universal ethical norm. Will, they aren't.
If we made neoliberalism our dogma and the Chinese are outcompeting us maybe our dogma is fucking wrong.
its not that a certain minister of economy has called them out on their wrong course 5 years ago. But he was shut down as fearmongering and pushing a political agenda.
Folks were saying this when Tesla released model S, and did a reasonable job on the timeline. That's 14 years ago. But those were tree hugging fanatics who don't understand the importance of short term stock prices.
Who could have seen this comming...corruption catching up... Who could have seen it coming that bribing politicians to allow them producing their product, that the people dont want anymore, wouldnt result in people wanting their product!!? Truely mind boggeling /s
German cars have become the same plastic crap with the same spying software, but still at double the price.
I would happily buy a 2010 level German car if they would still make it.
I drive a 1999 Skoda Octavia, VAG, with the 1.9 TDI, with the mechanical pump. The thing, with proper maintenance, is ultra reliable. Doesn't leak or burn oil. It hasn't had a major repair in 27 years/400.000 km, just consumables, like a clutch, belts, a starter motor, stuff like that.
Two people I know that have bought VAG cars the last 5 years are constantly bitching about their cars.
Engineering is not the problem here, it's management making engineering decisions.
The Chinese make generational planning. Western make quarterly decisions to appeal to speculators, not investors.
Western car makers, and Japanese/Koreans, definitely have the know how to make good value EVs, and some do (see Renault and Hyundai). If western and free market oriented Asian makers made long term investment and decisions they would compete just fine.
It started to become visible mid 00s. My Audi A4 was a great car mechanically - but it had to go for 'repairs' at least two times a year. Not because something was really broke - but because yet another sensor was malfunctioning. Massive costs, not for real repairs, but for mechanics hours figuring out which sensor was the culprit this time. Not one time there was a real mechanical problem.
It doesn't even mean anything to drive an Audi or BMW anymore. A Hyundai or Chinese brand can give you the same functionality at an equal or cheaper cost. Their cars don't even stand out anymore due to their SUV focus. It's hard for a luxury brand to recover its image once it loses its lustre.
They refused to make the transformation from gasoline to electro vehicles.
free market advocates become anti free market when china comes into play
Volkswagen sales in China itself dropped 36% because they don't offer competitive EV's compared to local EV's. The quality and innovation of Chinese EV's is well ahead of what European manufacturers can offer.
Even what were regarded as luxury brands like BMW and Mercedes have lost more than 30% sales.
It has nothing to do with the Chinese threat but all do to with lack of innovation and investment in new technologies by both European and especially US car manufacturers.
https://autofreak.com/vw-bmw-mercedes-china-sales-collapse-q2/
How about the car industry making bold moves into EV production instead? They have fought EVs tooth and nail, and lobbied to retain the fossile fuel market forever.
We've tried nothing, and we're all out of ideas
Exactly. And now bail us out, or else!
They trie dto make enormous EV car and nobody buy them. They didn't try to make affordable cars. Because this would impact the economy of leech we have in Europe.
The threat is your disinterest in battery, charging and EV technology?
Euro cars are known to be finicky and when something goes wrong it's also always a write off unless it's under warranty.
Have they tried making cars that don't break after 3-5 years again?
Best I can do is put cameras all over it and track everything that happens inside and out of the car "for your safety".
I mean, most American models come broken from the factory...
🇯🇵 America is only worth talking about for trucks. Japan, China and sometimes even Korea do normal cars better
Could start by making good cars again. Bmw couldn't get any worse at this point
No one left to buy them. Since they're expensive locally, they used to export them to the Chinese. But China has its own industry now.
Volkswagen is trying to implement a comprehensive cost-cutting programme with up to 100,000 job losses, double the amount previously planned, by 2030 and the potential contraction or closure of several plants.
There's no solution to this. Either make cars people want to buy or GTFO. Can't have jobs for an unwanted industry.
The so called "chinese threat" is the chinese not buying their cars anymore?