Gross
Fuck AI
"We did it, Patrick! We made a technological breakthrough!"
A place for all those who loathe AI to discuss things, post articles, and ridicule the AI hype. Proud supporter of working people. And proud booer of SXSW 2024.
AI, in this case, refers to LLMs, GPT technology, and anything listed as "AI" meant to increase market valuations.
Recently I've been embedding metadata into pictures I upload which include the cost to license out the image for AI training: 1 million dollars. Then, if an AI company scrapes my picture, I can take that company to court and have a concrete dollar amount for how much that company owes me for damages.
How will you poof that there was this high of a damage?
Its a bit delusional to think you can sue them. For a number of reasons, not least of which is that you don't have the funds for a protracted legal battle and that the burden of proof that your work was used is pretty much impossible to prove.
I don't think so. First of all, if a lawyer thinks that I have a strong case, they could agree to be paid after I win, so I don't need to pay out of pocket up front. Second, it is easy to prove that an AI company used my pictures, since they would need to download the pictures to train on them. Alternatively, if a platform sells it to the AI company, there is a record that it was sold for the purposes of AI training.(In that case, we don't have to prove that the image was used for training, since the crime is the sale.) Lastly, since the license and purchase info is contained within the metadata of the picture, they can't argue that the license was unavailable or something. They have it right there in their servers!
I'm not a lawyer, but as an artist, bravo. You've changed how I look at this. No sarcasm here. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I hope shitty things like this motivate people to organize into alternative networks, like local meshnets and more in-person community interactions. The internet may be hopelessly broken at this point.
We used to have those in Eastern Europe. I miss those days.
The video redistribution scene was amazing
Tell us more about it !
Actually. I have a hot take.
Forgive me... But the solution is not to replicate Instagram. Which is what Cara does.
Nor DeviantArt, either.
That's never going to work, for precisely the above reason, and many others.
This is something that's bothered me immensely about photography (which I'm getting back into as a hobby). Because, for all the "taking a stand" the community does, what do they do en masse?
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Subscribe to Adobe
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Live on Instagram
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Worship corporate influencers.
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Upload stuff to clouds that the privacy policy says will be used to train.
Just to start.
It infuriates me.
I'm all for the anti-slop stands, but the bulk of the community has precisely zero leg to stand on, if they're just going to fork over cash hand-and-fist to feed the beasts, and spend all their time on those platforms.
So what do we do?
Make prints. Display them! It can be in museums, festivals, meet ups, in your place, on the street, literally anywhere you want. Even if its on digital screens; as long as its in person, and the digital copy is squirreled away.
And that's if you feel strongly about the training thing. Personally, I'm more inclined to just post stuff under a permissive license places like Wikipedia could use (albeit not on Instagram).
To be clear, I don't mean to lump everyone into that. There's tons of photographers outside that bubble.
...But there are a ton in it, and they happen to be the loudest complainers.
The mass amount of morons wearing pervert glasses will probably just end up copying those prints
Not putting the work online slashes accessibility and discoverability though
How about Low res and watermarked images?
Yep.
Pick one:
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Permissive, open visibility.
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More intimate viewing, restricted usability.
Can’t have one’s cake and eat it.
People thought they could, posting on Instagram or Reddit or wherever, but that was a lie from day one.
You either post online, where people can and will do stuff you don’t like with your content, or you keep it private. This applies to code, writing, communication, everything, not just visual art.
Can’t have one’s cake and eat it.
Sure we can. You don't need to either use Instagram or never use the net. That's precisely what Cara is for. Promote open source tooling and use friendly communities that don't promise to scrape your life's work.
Now how we deal with mass scrapers downloading images; that's a legal issue. One that even physical venues isn't immune to (it just adds a lot of friction).
You either post online, where people can and will do stuff you don’t like with your content, or you keep it private.
I think there's a difference between "this person took a few images and edited them" and "I scraped an entire website to use for training AI slop".
you really can't. If it is online it will be scrapped. You can't prove it was scrapped, and you can't stop it. If it is offline it WILL still be scrapped it it just significantly harder to do so.
Now how we deal with mass scrapers downloading images; that’s a legal issue. One that even physical venues isn’t immune to (it just adds a lot of friction).
That's the point!
The friction is the key.
If you post images on the internet, how accessible they are directly correlates to how "downloadable" they are. Trying to imitate social media while fighting all scraping is a infinite, costly battle; that's a service trying to make posts viral and inaccessible. Such a fight takes Facebook money to sustain.
And it's not necessarily some script kiddie troll that's boasting about it on Reddit who will eventually get access.
...But add fundamental friction? That raises the bar.
I think the fallacy is artists believe they need an gigantic amalgamation of online people exposed to their art, a large fraciton of the internet. That's not true. And its a deception, anyway. Smaller niches or smaller communities are fine, and they won't be such high profile targets.
Or self-host a website, there's bunch of public FOSS CMS, blog software that can be deployed in a single line of code.
Cara uses third-party content moderation services from Hive (an AI company) to prevent AI-generated art from being uploaded onto the site.
Hahahahaha so this friendly™ Chinese platform basically feeds every uploaded image into an AI to determine if it's AI.
Just self host your own personal blog/art or use a proper website and not that shitshow.
The idea I believe it to prevent your art from being scraped. Self-hosting Isn't a solution
To keep my art from being scraped by AI, I only display it in a physical gallery. The gallery is equipped with AI-based automated machine gut turrets programmed to paste anyone that tries to take a photo of the art.
Mildly hot take:
It really points to these people just having really bad moral compasses.
In other words, these people are actually just bad people, as weird as that is to realize.
Like if you don't understand that what you're doing is wrong, that does not entirely excuse you from moral judgement of the rest of society; if you fundamentally disagree with the premise of something being good or bad with another person, it does follow that they're a bad person. Which then does mean that people doing shit like this are objectively bad people, doing objectively bad things.
Which brings back to question of how bad something needs to be for it to constitute being "evil". I'm not religious, but there's a certain level of how something bad impacts others, intent, and context, that I believe most people would classify as evil. Not demons and hell and that nonsense, but effectively something worth crusading against and being extremely hostile towards. Something that threatens life and peace, and of a certain scale, I would call "evil".
So these bad people doing stuff like this, with the intent of stealing on a massive scale, directly against the autonomy and will of artists... Not exactly evil, at first.. but if it results in actual harm, and if that harm is intended... that, I would define as an act of evil.
So yeah, just a topic or perspective I think worth discussing. We all know something's really wrong right now in society, and I think there's a level of even language and ethics that hasn't caught up or isn't in full view. I also realize the dangers of proposing this and it being a slippery slope to what it may even advocate. That being said, again, I think it's a perspective worth entertaining at least from a philosophical perspective and discussion.
Incredibly cold take, freezing even. Most people learn bad people exist before they even hit puberty. You'd have to be insanely naive and sheltered for this to be your first exposure to evil.
They absolutely understand that it's evil and immoral, they just simply don't care. This is becoming really prevalent on the internet, people think of others on the internet as not human so it's easier for evil to become rampant even if these people aren't be malicious in real life.
Well I was gonna go tell them to off themselves in a plethora of colorful ways on reddit, but it seems their account was banned lol.
You can tell just by their tone that they know what they're doing is immoral and wrong, but they still do it. Hard to not become a misanthrope living in this society.
It's amazing how disrespectful these idiots can be. They'll destroy and steal people's work, feed it to Big Corpo™ Slopinator 4.7, get shit-tier content in return, just because they chugged the kool-aid that this tech with billions of dubious investments is the future of everything.
And all because they didnt get into art school.
Who would have thought not getting into art school would be such a major cause of issues for humanity.
This asshole is testing some deep waters when it comes to contributory liability of copyright infringement in the US: https://www.cooley.com/news/insight/2026/2026-03-26-supreme-court-confirms-limits-on-contributory-liability-for-copyright-infringement
The fact they also claim they can disable nightshade tells me this is a shyster looking to make a quick payday from a zip file of jpegs
An app like Cara, that positions itself as an Anti-AI art platform, would obviously be targeted by anyone who's offended simply by its existence.
Not only its a honey-pot of art, it's also a challenge for any self proclaimed ai "prompt kiddie" to hurt the other side.
They need to apply better protections to at least make mass scraping by bots a bit more difficult and expensive.
Yeah good luck asshole.
PSA to anyone who uploads art online, anywhere. Poison it first. Use the latest version. I'm sorry but you are in an arms race now. Dickhead over here is full of shit, but even if they're not, Nightshade is updated fast.
Nightshade and Glaze only run on Windows. Cara has a partnership with them so that your work automatically gets Glazed before being published, hence the anti-AI fame.
This isn't just about scraping the images, it's about sending the message
But, isn’t this just a demonstration that Cara isn’t doing what it’s built for? If one person, who is honest about what they did, is able to scrape all the art for $10, wouldn’t the major AI companies also be able to scrape it?
And not only would they not be honest about it, it seemed like this went completely unnoticed by Cara.
They claim they may have a way to remove Glaze and Nightshade, two of the tools protecting images hosted on Cara from being used as training data. Which means right now they don’t have a way to remove it, which means Cara is still working, which I’m not implying is going to forever be true nor am I particularly informed; I just read the whole post.
From reading a bit more through various linked posts, I don't think they downloaded the artwork for the claimed $10, but scraped the site for a list of URLs from which to download it.
There are a number of references to the "dataset" (implied to just be this list) becoming useless if Cara were to implement stricter rate limiting.
" I may soon have a way to remove nightshade" lol good luck with that