Flock cameras aside, I would never buy a home that's part of an HOA. There have been too many stories over the last 10 years of these terrible people abusing their power, up-to and including stealing people's home out from under them. That neighborhood is unlivable.
Something like 35% of all homes in the US are governed by HOAs and roughly 2/3 of all new developments are adopting HOAs.
Reason number 4629 why I'll never be immigrating to the US. "Land of the free" my ass.
I've recently just understood what a HOA is. As a Canadian I thought they were "Unincorporated Municipalities" or there's also "Rate Payers Associations" which is like a proto-town where there's a group providing town-like services amongst themselves. Which to me is some sick ass anarchist shit. But an HOA is just letting your neigbours tell you what to do? That's lame.
HOAs were created because racists didn't want black people in their neighborhood. I fucking hate HOAs.
Judging by another guys post, HOA's are way of offloading a whole new tax structure on individual neighborhoods. The whole being racist thing is how they convinced everyone to pay it.
But it's FOR THE GREATER GOOD.
Daily reminder that one of the most famous serial killers stopped killing after he became president of an HOA because he got just as much satisfaction from it as he did torturing people to death.
Can't remember if it was Dahmer or the BTK killer but the point is still there
My HOA seems to be one of the best options - $300/year and zero rules about bins being x inches from the house, paint restrictions, etc. The money goes towards the subdivision pool and that's it.
But I'm worried that the two trustees (who are in their 70s) will kick it and someone less hands off will take over.
Oh sweet summer child.
Nobody thinks THEIR HOA can turn to shit, but all it takes is maybe five people to take over and fuck it entirely. I moved into a one of these shitbag neighborhoods because it was the only thing available at the time that fit the budget and met the other criteria. Buying during late covid was a mess. I've spent a LOT of time pouring over the legal documents, charters, etc and pulling as many docs out of the county recorder's website as I could find. The pastiche of state and local laws that interleave into HOAs is a confusing mess at best. In the case of mine, the board members got something through that changed the voting requirements for dissolution of the HOA from 60% to 95%. No, they did not hold a vote to do it, they just did it via the procedures laid out in the founding documents. I've NEVER witness or been invited to any voting activities, yet we have a new board president somehow. It's the same group of ten white boomers that just trade back and forth. Right now, the only thing that's holding them down is that they pissed away all the money so they have little to nothing left to engage in any sort of legal battles with homeowners. However, they did just raise the fees (again, no voting that I am aware of) so that may change.
Your HOA may be benign now, but all it takes are a handful of assholes to fuck up the whole thing and create misery in the process. A few boomer busybodies, maybe one lawyer and you're fucked.
Also, many of these things will "sell" the management to a 3rd party that will run them like a slumlord. They will send people out to generate infractions and fines that they get to keep. Grass too long, fine. Mailbox not right, another fine. Garbage out too early/late, that's a fine. Most of the money goes to the management company, the board trustees will put the rest into the HOA funds, but there is almost zero oversight for what happens to the money.
HOAs are bullshit I would love to burn mine down; I'm half tempted to start a legal battle with mine just because I know that they dont' have a lot of money and I might be able to bully them into something, but I'd never get rid of it. Plus it would be an expensive gamble.
Would it hurt to sound less condescending?
My hoa has this. Wish I knew before I moved in. My car got vandalized, and the offender was their friend. They decided to protect him and not give out the recording. Also sent out email with disclaimer: cameras are not for our safety or security. What are they for then?!?! Stalking us?!?
That's an instant "sue and subpoena the footage"
When I was house-shopping, I refused to look at any house that was in an HOA.
Some HOA's are literally just to pay for the maintenance of a shared private drive, which IMO is reasonable. So, we explicitly refused to make any offers or consider any homes in HOA's which didn't let us see their charter. Interestingly enough, that was all of them... makes you think.
Where I'm from, the board has to make all documentation and meeting minutes available to people considering purchasing.
And it's a damn good thing they do, I've had friends discover some pretty expensive things that were lurking in the wings for future costs, like mold abatement and foundation problems.
What you don’t want to pay a surcharge every month for the privilege to fund a micro government focused on harassing its constituents?
Ya fuck HOAs
This is my number one requirement.
also ring cameras are spying too. i see them still installed in most houses.
Would be cool if this flock debacle dragged the rest of the CCTV industry down with it..
Zero chance. There are good reasons to have cameras, it’s the centralized database that is truly dystopian.
You should be allowed to shoot at flock cameras with a pellet gun if you're standing on your property while doing it. If you can hit the lens from there, it was infringing on your privacy on your property.
In the US you are legally allowed to record anything visible from public property. Meaning the flock cameras could be pointed directly at your house and it’d be legal.
I mean, they’d suddenly disappear somewhat frequently, but they’d be legal while there.
The fact that your HOA is surveiling your house and its residents is disgusting enough to at least meet with an attorney, IMHO. 🖖🏼
Billionaires: Yes, your property values are much lower now. How about you sell to us before things get worse?
My HOA has them and advertises them as a way to keep the neighborhood safer. Most people buy it. I hope the tide turns on these though and that more stories like this continue to show they can affect bottom lines.
I have this theory that visibly disabled security devices harm the public perception of safety more than no devices being there in the first place.
Regardless of whether flock cameras are deployed or not, I can't figure out why anyone would be looking to buy into an HOA community.
Lack of options
I'd rather live in a tent.
No matter how "good" HOA may seem... It will go to shit and and you will get fucked. It's not if, it is when.
You may get lucky for a few years, but eventually like Russian roulette, you will lose big.
My friend bought a house in a good neighborhood with "good HOA". Half a year later they went on vacation and while they were away, hoa people entered his yard with a key that they apparently have without informing him, and cut down a beautiful cherry blossom tree in his yard, then sent him a bill for a removal, with the explaination that the tree had "incorrect leaf density".
The municipalities are allowing it and the police are gobbling them up. As someone commented below, a fucking Ring camera is near identical to a Flock. In the near future, I'm certain Ring will also offer a camera, with options, that will read your ass.
Flock cameras make it look like there's a lot of crime in the area
That's because their presence alludes to anyone being a secret criminal, even your neighbors. 🤮 Watch out next for the armbands.
I went to the the pool yesterday with my toddler and noticed a flock camera pointed at the pool entrance. Fucking perverts.
Whatever spying cops are doing, HOA busybodies are doing it worse.
Fuck HOAs. I refused to look at houses within an HOA when I bought mine. I fired a realtor because they kept wasting my time showing me "wonderful houses" that were within an HOA, even though I explicitly told them no.
HOA are cancer. I don't understand how anything the HOA does is not a municipal government issue.
Because our country has a weird obsession with "government overreach" and somehow a private entity policing your every move is "more free" than a municipal ordinance.
It's because the government said let's all get along, and treat black people as humans and HOA's were a legal way to enforce segregation...
HOA itself should lower property value, let alone surveillance. I can’t ever imagine myself living in HOA.
people should be aware of AXON cameras too.
They absolutely do. If I were forced to buy in an HOA, thankfully I wasn't, I would never buy HOA+cameras.
I used to live in a condo and sometimes went to the HOA meetings. One time they were discussing a couple vehicle thefts that had happened in our parking lot, and whether they should allow the local police to patrol the lot (noting that the police could also ticket cars that, say, had expired registrations, too - it wouldn't necessarily just catch theft). It was a pretty good discussion of the pros and cons, though one guy was screeching about having a police state.
Then, a few topics later, in the same meeting, there was a discussion about a proposal to install cameras that would take pictures of all cars coming and going out of the lot. Guess who was strongly in favor of that.
Is there an app that shows you where flock cameras are and where they are pointed?
Several. The big one is DeFlock.
Automated License Plate Readers (ALPRs) are AI-powered cameras that capture and analyze images of all passing vehicles, storing details like your car’s location, date, and time. They also capture your car’s make, model, color, and identifying features such as dents, roof racks, and bumper stickers, often turning these into searchable data points. These cameras collect data on millions of vehicles—regardless of whether the driver is suspected of a crime. While these systems can be useful for tracking stolen cars or wanted individuals, they are mostly used to track the movements of innocent people.
Learn more at deflock.me
