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[-] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 55 points 1 day ago

It pretty much makes privacy illegal.

[-] zane@infosec.pub 20 points 1 day ago

There's an easy legal loophole.

When you seize their phone, tell them your passcode is explicitly not the destruction code, and do not answer any more questions besides insisting this.

When they inevitability try to put in the only thing you mentioned, its entirely their fault for the erase.

Your milage may vary depending on financial class.

[-] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 day ago

When you seize their phone, tell them your passcode is explicitly not the destruction code, and do not answer any more questions besides insisting this.

I feel like there might be a couple of things you have the the wrong way around in this sentence.

[-] Heide@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

The destruction code: 4321

"Well, the code definitely isn't 4321"

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 59 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

You know, since we are entering into a lot of legal weirdness here, how about this:

You give the cops TWO passwords. You tell them one is the duress password, and the other is the password that will unlock the phone.

Desperate and without a warrant, they try one. Wrong try! Phone is wiped.

In reality, both are duress passwords but they would have to prove that. (GoS only currently supports one duress password)

Yes, it's ridiculous, but everything about this is ridiculous.

[-] impairedimperator@lemmy.zip 71 points 1 day ago

Nah, write the duress password on a piece of paper and keep it in your phone case. Then keep your mouth shut. Let the cops find it and try it themselves.

[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 46 points 1 day ago

Then you sue them for destroying your data. They took your phone and wiped it...

[-] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago

This is actually a really good idea. It would also work if your phone got stolen.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 day ago

Yes! Or even better, make it 1234 or your birthdate and let them guess it on their own.

[-] halcyoncmdr@piefed.social 5 points 1 day ago

I have two different PINs I use for different debit cards. One of those is also my phone PIN, the other is my Duress PIN.

It would be really easy for to forget which is which when in a stressful situation.

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[-] droppedtacos@lemmy.world 27 points 1 day ago

And what about maybe also adding in a friend or relative that's with you so that you can inform the cop that one of you tells only truths and one of you tells only lies. I think we're onto something here. 'Dispatch, I'm gonna need the Riddlemaster to come down here. We got another one.'

[-] Hupf@feddit.org 16 points 1 day ago
[-] frongt@lemmy.zip 11 points 1 day ago
[-] bhamlin@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Yup, you're ok if they use the rubber hose. They likely need to produce you again at some point. If they use the wrench, they don't care what you look like.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 62 points 2 days ago

Advice: if you know you don´t want your phone searched going through customs, don't bring it! Or wipe it before you go through. I'm 100% on this guy's side, but we're not exactly living in a free and open society.

[-] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 46 points 1 day ago

This isn't new. Journalists coming into the US in the aughts would be harassed by CBT and DHS, forced to open and unlock their laptops (and then delete whatever the officers found unsavory.

So they'd come in with their computers fully encrypted and wouldn't have the pass key, themselves, so it was impossible to unlock them. If they were detained unreasonably, that became a new story the next morning.

Once through customs, correspondents would call their office and get the key.

But it sucks if you don't have a whole news agency to back your rights.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago

Interesting. Could they hold the device, though, until it's unlocked? I think this might be the Bad Press exception, not a legal right that would work for anyone else. Because if I gave the encryption key to a friend, they would just tell me to call the friend and get it.... and if they refused to give it to me, it would because I instructed them not to...

[-] frongt@lemmy.zip 11 points 1 day ago

No, they would just refuse you entry to the country.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago

Yes, if you're not a citizen they can do that. If you are a citizen, they can not deny you entry.

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago

If you are a citizen, they can not deny you entry.

But they can detain you at the border

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago

Yeah, and in a very cold room and for a very long time. But legally they have to let you in at some point.

[-] thejml@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 days ago

Seriously. Wipe it, claim it's new to you or whatever, put your stuff back on later if you need to. I'm sure you can find somewhere or someone you trust to get you that data back whenever you actually need it.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 days ago

It brings up an interesting question: if wiping your phone after being requested access to it is illegal (?), would wiping your phone in anticipation of access being requested also illegal? Are we effectively required to give the federal government access to every private account in order to travel?

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[-] EmilieEasie@fedinsfw.app 42 points 1 day ago

I think what he did was brave and I think there's a good chance he loses this, and I think the guilty verdict will be really unpopular

[-] Armok_the_bunny@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago

I'm inclined to think he's going to get away with it, but more because of the circumstances under which he provided the password, as in prolonged detention where he was specifically denied access to a lawyer.

[-] EmilieEasie@fedinsfw.app 4 points 1 day ago

That would (very pleasantly) surprise me in the current political climate

[-] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago

Someone has to fall on their sword to get important issues brought before the supreme court but I wouldn't get my hopes up with this court.

[-] JamesTBagg@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago

Jury nullification is a thing for reason.

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 65 points 2 days ago

That privacy was already long gone by the time of this case.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2232

(a)Destruction or Removal of Property To Prevent Seizure.—
Whoever, before, during, or after any search for or seizure of property by any person authorized to make such search or seizure, knowingly destroys, damages, wastes, disposes of, transfers, or otherwise takes any action, or knowingly attempts to destroy, damage, waste, dispose of, transfer, or otherwise take any action, for the purpose of preventing or impairing the Government’s lawful authority to take such property into its custody or control or to continue holding such property under its lawful custody and control, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

If he hadn't used duress and had just refused, he'd have been fine. Graphine is secure and would have had his back

If he hadn't given them the code and instead left it in his wallet, and they did it themselves, he'd have been fine.

All he had to do was plead the 5th.

He's going to get hit with a felony for destroying data to prevent a search. There are tons of precedents in the 11th Circuit for searching without a warrant.

A duress password is only useful if what you'd be facing is worse than 18 U.S. Code § 2232a, and then only if they don't have enough to convict you already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2rokxux5cU`___`

Dude is just protesting the construction of a large cop training facility near him. I don't know what the fuck he did to get on the FBI radar, but I wish him good luck; he's gonna need it.

[-] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 78 points 2 days ago

I don't know what the fuck he did to get on the FBI radar

....

Dude is just protesting the construction of a large cop training facility near him.

That is what did it.

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[-] WesternInfidels@feddit.online 17 points 2 days ago

I don't think ordinary citizens should be required to know the law in lawyer-like detail when they travel.

I think in the broad strokes, you're probably right about his legal situation, but it suuuuuucks and it's not what I think of when I hear the word "freedom," for sure.

[-] systemglitch@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago

Freedom, lol. How many prisoners per capita again?

[-] k0e3@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago

The freedom to enslave, silly.

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[-] this@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

What if you set a durress password to something simple like 12345, plead the 5th, and the cops try to brute force your device? Would it still be your fault or is it the cops fault since they are the ones who entered the password while trying to bypass your phone's security measures?

Also, what if you explicitly tell them there is a durress password, but refuse to tell them what it is? Surely if they were informed of the risk and proceeded regardless the blame would fall squarely on them for risking a process that might "destroy evidence"

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[-] ITGuyLevi@programming.dev 9 points 1 day ago

The issue I'm seeing with the whole case is they siezed his phone, they kept his phone, the seizure of his property happened successfully. A person later entered something they believed would open it but instead it wiped it. The end user didn't wipe it, and didn't lie to the agents of the state because a duress PIN is still a PIN, I'm willing to wager they didn't specify that they wanted his 'unlock PIN' and instead just asked him for a PIN (personal identification number), which he gave.

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 day ago

That's court fodder, and unfortunately, I don't believe it'll pass.

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this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2026
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