submitted 2 weeks ago by HubertManne@piefed.social to c/television@piefed.social

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So I don't know why I get excited about these things. The last series I had high hopes for was wheel of time. I was very disapointed with it. It was a nice enough fantasy series but it messed up the authors story and world while having to much of it in it to be an independent things. Foundation is even worse. While watching I was thinking it was maybe like stories that took place in the Foundation universe. Like stories between but even then with the whole cloned emperors. It was more like stories in a alternate foundation story universe. I feel like it was kinda dunified. Not in the sense of sandworms and spice but in the sense of people with special powers and all sorts of wierd sects and they really stressed the whole ai war thing. I almost feel maybe someone read the amber series with walking the spiral. Thats a stretch Ill admit but I wonder. Thing is the dune movie that did so well came out after this series started. I hate so much that these movie and show runners seem to be like. I can tell this authors story better than these silly authors can. ugh. Most of the series revolves around stories around stuff they added. Only the framework of the original stories seem to be present. Im only in season one but Im not sure I can handle watching it through to the end.

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[-] MimicJar@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago

I mean if you don't like it, I wouldn't encourage you to continue watching it. You wonder if it gets better, and I won't spoil with any specifics but mostly no but also yes.

I've watched all three seasons and I think the "Foundation" storyline sucks. It's not a complete waste but I don't think I'd watch three seasons of a show that is just about the Foundation.

But the "Empire" storyline, that's excellent. If you're enjoying that storyline then yes, it continues to get better and better. It's the reason the show ultimately works.

I have a hard time recommending the show since about half of it sucks and the other half is great.

[-] Pomal@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 weeks ago

I agree with this assessment. There’s a lack of compelling storyline on the foundation side of things, but holy fuck give me more empire.

[-] USSEthernet@piefed.social 3 points 2 weeks ago

I enjoyed the show so I went and listened to the audiobooks and I stopped during the second one. I just hated it. The show barely has anything in common with the books and thank god because I thought the books were awful.

[-] shads@leminal.space 13 points 2 weeks ago

I have watched the whole lot and honestly would have been better for them to make it a story inspired by some of the key events of the Foundation series. It's a space opera like star wars, not a serious take on the events of the books.

That being said it is a spectacle. The whole Imperial rule of the Cleons is a really interesting concept when you let go of the way it doesn't fit the books, and not just because of Lee Pace's abs.

I rate it a hell of a lot higher than The Wheel is Time, that didn't weave in an out of the original story line, it actively shat on Robert Jordan's subtle and detailed world building. Every half arsed lazy strategy they used to write the dumbed down baby's first fantasy tale version of the books made it more and more impossible to complete the story. The best thing that happened to that show was cancellation before they screwed it up any more.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 2 weeks ago

I still think the problem with WOT was they are to close to the story. So you could not get rid of the dragon reborn plot or such. I have had comments here about the foundation plot and the empire plot and the empire being what is good. I see that now and its kinda funny because you could just rip out the whole foundation plot to some degree and just call it empire as its own ip (which again to me is closer to dune than foundation) and it would be a nice generic sci fi series.

[-] shads@leminal.space 1 points 2 weeks ago

They wanted so badly to incorporate key parts of the books that they were willing to change things around to get to them you mean?

Just a single example that bugged me: I will be the first to admit that Robert's gender sensitivity wasn't something to be shouted from the rooftops, although for the 90s when he started he is far from the worst.

However, he did have the plot point of a male chaneller in a female body with Halima. The show making Nynaeve a potential Dragon reborn candidate opens the door to the idea of peoples access to the One Power being based on their gender identity not their gender presentation.

It turns an unthinkable plot point in the latter part of the story into something Aes Sedai have obviously assumed can happen from the outset, and would surely be something they are alert to.

Almost like they didn't understand the source material.

[-] nocturne@slrpnk.net 12 points 2 weeks ago

I follow Douglas Adams's thinking, every piece of media, even when it is the same story should be different. He intentionally wrote his books different from the radio drama, and the miniseries, and the text based game, and the movie. He wanted them all to be unique, otherwise read the book again.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 6 points 2 weeks ago

hes sorta a special case. even though each thing was different it carried his humor. His stories were not very serious though to begin with so it does not matter quite as much as something from tolkein or asimov.

[-] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

I’ve read all of the foundation series and didn’t have a problem with the tv series. I knew it wasn’t going to be exact. It would have been a boring tv show if it were exactly the same.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 2 weeks ago

Its not even close. he has the two other worlds combine into a revolutionary force. and again so much of the world is more like dune than foundation. ai extermination, specially bred jump species, heck they don't even explain the faster than light but not jump drive stuff, and the whole empire thing feels more dune to me with the wierd clone thing and religious sects. Also special powers early in anyway.

[-] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Foundation is the... ahem... foundation of my love for sci-fi. It was the first "adult" sci-fi book I read, and it holds a VERY special place in my heart.

The series shit on it and David S. Goyer is a fucking cunt for his arrogance. He could have just made the same show but changed the name. The fucking story is barely Foundation, and what aspects there are of it could have been written out for as much as they matter to the plot. Goyer wanted to think he could do it better, and he couldn't. I'd be happy if he never works in entertainment again.

[-] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

I can tell this authors story better than these silly authors can.

that's an inherent problem adapting a book to visual medium. word for word adaptations just don't work.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

well im looking for word for word. The lord of the rings was overall a very good adoption as much as I hated changing the sauruman and hobbit story.

[-] misk@piefed.social 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I treat adaptation as their own works, saves me grief of comparing things that are meant to be different because different mediums work differently. For things like Foundation or Wheel of Time it could be this or nothing at all because it’s not feasible to adapt 1:1, stay in a sane budget and attract viewers to make it profitable.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah I don't think its impossible and it does not need to be 1:1. Many of these things they change are rather core to the story. I mean LORT movied changed a very significant thing without ruining it although it is a disapointment for fans.

[-] misk@piefed.social 2 points 2 weeks ago

I’m still boycotting Peter Jackson over Tom Bombadil. Fans forgave it because battle of Helm’s Deep was expanded from 5 pages to 2 hours of awesome action and they skipped on most of the poems so that people could stay awake through the movies.

There are merits to Apple adaptation of Foundation that Isaac Asimov couldn’t ever do in the books. Like how much eye candy Lee Pace is. Have you seen his abs? And that voice. I want to have children with him and I’m a guy.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 2 weeks ago

yeah but foundation is so far from the story that its simply not the story. I think a lot of commentors are right that basically the wholely made up empire story is good. It would have better to have done it as its own thing and take out the foundation and any named things like harry seldon and psychohistory. Like terminus does not need to be anything more than a far imperial colony and pretty much it would all work out. Heck you could do a substory that someone from the colony framed the other two worlds to get the whole rebellion started.