This is a common carbrain argument
"I already pay the gas tax"
The problem is that it's false.
In a recent study, researchers Stefan Gössling, Jessica Kees, and Todd Litman calculated the social costs of driving. They found that the social cost is about 30-40% higher than what car owners are actually paying
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800921003943?via=ihub
That cost is paid by non-drivers.
It’s a shame we let those damned bikes take up so much room, and for free too.
And my brother was telling me how bikes don't pay enough of their fair share of the road tax and all that ...
Doing a bit of napkin math here, but presuming an 80kg person in a 1200kg car vs a 15kg bike (commuter and mountain bikes are in this weight range), accounting for average speeds of 50 and 15 mph...
By my count, to do the same amount of damage to the road, as a single car of the above specs, you'd need somewhere between 30 and 50 thousand bikes travelling down the same road, in 4-5 columns.
And that's a pessimistic estimate.
I've never heard anyone make this argument myself, I guess someone has at least once.
The cited article is correct but the summary of the meme is bad.
"I paid for the roads with taxes." Is the text in the meme.
The text claims the meme says, "I paid for everything bad about cars with gas taxes."
Thing is, you haven't paid it with your taxes either. A lot of the costs haven not been paid yet at all, much of it is financed by debt, and also those who don't use the road in the region pay for it nonetheless.
Is there a study that shows the full environmental cost over the decades it takes for the cars pollution to be handled by the world?
Including fine particles that mostly stem from car tires as far as I know.
Only because they’ve drastically cleaned up engine emissions and oil/grease leaks. Not to mention removing lead, and then MTBE from gasoline. It’s interesting watching old movies and seeing how black the middle of concrete roads used to be from oil and exhaust soot.
Not to say that tire microplastics aren’t bad, just that it was so much worse before, that they weren’t worth focusing on.
Possibly also the average weight of cars nearly doubling isn’t helping.
Fuck cars all you want, but you're an idiot if you think you don't need roads as a distribution network for your way of living. Be glad some of the maintenance is supplemented by a fuel tax for now.
Politicians keep passing gas tax holidays too, to keep people happy.
This month, I bought tires and my insurance renewing: still pretty expensive after being subsidized by 35% by everyone.
You're not actually subsidized, the companies are. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
: (
That's a no brainer. Of course not.
Should it be? Everyone benefits from the roads even if they don't own or drive a car, because I can assure you that every single item in your house has at one point been transported on a road. Roads are primarily made for freight and it's also the large trucks that wear out the roads so the roads need to be maintained. So it should be the large cargo trucks that paid for the roads, right. But then the cost of freight would have to increase. That'd be great, because freight is way too cheap when companies can offer free freight. There's no such thing as free freight. It costs somebody something. Higher freight costs would mean that people would either consume less, which is bad for the economy, or worse, that they'd simply start driving more themselves, which is bad for the environment.
There's no winning scenario as long as everything is dependent on roads, even when you don't use the road yourself.
That's not a good thing. Road freight being subsidized means it gets unfair advantage over more efficient transport when it makes sense. So taxes are being used to subsidize inefficient means of transport, at least some of the time.
Making freight pay their share would make them examine how to be most efficient, instead of not caring since they don't pay.
Exactly. Freight should be more expensive.
Companies can only offer free shipping, because their cost is negligible on their end, because the shipping companies have too low prices. It causes over-consumption and more freight.
I'm not OP so I can't be sure, but I think the point is not that gas tax should be increased to the point where it pays 100% of the cost of supporting automobile traffic infrastructure. I think the point is that when carbrains say we shouldn't spend tax money on active transportation infrastructure and we say, "Whaddya mean, we spend tax money on car infrastructure," and they say, "nuh-uh, that's paid for out of the gas tax and we already paid that," they are full of shit.
Yes of course the car brains are full of shit in that claim. Fuel tax was never intended to do that.
I also don't assume my electricity tax pays for the roads where I drive an EV, but perhaps I should ask for a tax refund for the fuel I buy for my lawnmover since I rarely mov the road.
Roads are primarily made for freight
[Citation Needed]
That's such an obviously false claim, i only need to front window to see how laughable, but it's also ahistorical, too.
Road maintenance is for freight.
The roads are built for the heaviest users and besides the natural frost damage, the only reason why roads wear down is heavy traffic. Roads that are only used by personal vehicles can last a lifetime while the larger cargo routes needs repair constantly and complete overhauls every 5 years or so. That's where the costs of road maintenance comes from.
We can bitch and moan about cars and traffic all day for all kinds of reasons, but when the question is about who should pay the insane price of road maintenance, the arrow points in one direction: Cargo.
Aye, that is the historical progression: We built roads and highways for automobiles, and the logistics companies took advantage of the subsidized "free" ways. We should absolutely make them pay for what they use. It may seem like this system is "good for the economy," but this kind of subsidy distorts the supply/demand equilibrium and creates deadweight loss. Furthermore, the effect it's had on logistics favors just-in-time inventory systems, distant manufacturers, and large, centralized distribution centers. Wal-Mart and Amazon are one visible result.
Perhaps if we priced the cost of transport into the price of goods, it would be better for most people, as manufacturing and distribution (with the associated jobs) moved back closer to the consumers?
Yeah, also if road transport cost the actual price, more goods would be transported by rail and water, which is much better for the environment.
"We can't afford rails, large infrastructure bla.bla." Ah.. Okay .. but how then can we afford to replace the current roads every 5 years? It's like everyone just take roads from granted because it's a socialized cost.
Did they mean train tracks?
I remember driving out West in Arizona and New Mexico, the Interstate paralleling the train tracks. There were at best a handful of trucks on the road, while I'd see these mile-long trains out of the ports of LA or Long Beach every half hour, or less.
I also walked on a section of the original Route 66 that they've preserved in Flagstaff. The U.S. numbered highway system was conceived and built for private cars. As was the Interstate Highway System.
IME, "roads are for freight" is one of those things people just say because it sounds good, and they want it to be true at some level, even though it's so obviously false if you just look around. (I was out there to buy a boat, and buying a tow vehicle and driving it myself was much cheaper than any LTL freight service.)
Because the rail companies have taken a short -term approach of eliminating competition and min-maxing current profits instead of investing in infrastructure, the rail isn't really competing with road freight
Rail freight displaces what is can carry, and the rest is done by road. The mile long train cars are moving a lot of goods, but if you parked by the side of the highway and counted semi trucks you'd see tons of them
Technically, the highway system was designed for military response and to stimulate the economy... But if you look at what it's used for? It's totally fair to say it's to transport goods
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