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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Quokka@quokk.au to c/til@lemmy.ca

We had been warned of trouble looming at a show in Fairfax, Va., a conservative suburb outside Washington, D.C. The gig was at the Patriot Center at George Mason University. George Mason, a father of the Bill of Rights, refused to sign the Declaration of Independence because it didn’t guarantee enough rights and freedoms. (Were he still alive, he’d be cast out of Virginia; although its state slogan is “Virginia Is For Lovers,” in 1994, Virginia had an anti-sodomy law.) The promoter told Green Day in advance that they wouldn’t allow us to play, that we were inappropriate; Green Day’s response to the promoter was that if we didn’t play, they wouldn’t play.

The promoter backed down, but when we arrived, he pulled me aside for a lecture. In a friendly-yet-stern way, he said our material was too mature for Green Day’s young audiences. He said that there would be eight-to-12-year-olds in the crowd. I asked why he was worried about our lyrics and not Green Day’s, which also have some references that might not be suitable. And who were these kids, anyway? What parents were letting their kids go to concerts so young? I told him, if they’re that young, much of what we sing about is going to go right over their heads; they won’t get it. But they’ll know they saw a gay band, and it will get them talking one way or the other. To us, that would be a victory, meaning we’ve infiltrated Pat Robertson country. This guy kept saying things like he had a lesbian sister, that he was for gay rights, but not in these circumstances. He said he was dreading the day-after phone calls from parents. I told him I had the right to sing about it, kids had the right not to be censored, and what we sang about was part of the world we live in. Virginia was a sodomy-law state; the discrimination was written into state law. To counter years of hetero propaganda these kids had heard—and would continue to hear—a few bad words and risqué songs wouldn’t do them any harm. This discussion went in circles for 15 minutes, until I finally told him it was a waste of my time. When we played, the reception was mixed but more supportive than I’d feared; it was the only show we played with Green Day in the South.

The apex of that tour was a gig at Madison Square Garden. The show was a multi-artist extravaganza: faux-alternative station Z-100’s Christmas bash. The lineup from top to bottom: Green Day, Hole, Weezer, Melissa Etheridge, Bon Jovi (gag, choke, splutter, barf), Sheryl Crow, Toad The Wet Sprocket, the Indigo Girls and us. When Green Day found out Bon Jovi was on the bill, they were fit to be tied. This was everything we had ever fought against. This was an alternative station? Z-100 tried to throw us off the bill, but Green Day said they wouldn’t do the show if we didn’t get to play. We’ll always be grateful for the many times they stood up for us that year.

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[-] TheBrideWoreCrimson@sopuli.xyz 3 points 8 hours ago

"Faux-alternative", I have to remember this.

[-] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

Surely "Faux-ternative"?

[-] sangriaferret@sh.itjust.works 12 points 14 hours ago

I had the pleasure of briefly playing in a band with the drummer from Pansy Division. He was the most positive, gracious, supportive and professional person I have ever worked with. It was an absolute pleasure to collaborate with him and be his friend. He went on to dedicate his life to counseling people with substance abuse problems. An absolutely solid guy.

[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 9 points 14 hours ago

Yeah. They are a punk band. A real one, unlike many others. They shit in Trump in the first term, a lot of others seem to have... Ignored it. Just, nothing going on here. Everything is good. Let's sing about some girl that didn't like me.

Green day are the real deal, man.

[-] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago

Green Day have sold out, and regained their punk cred like, 4 or 5 times over at this point, and tbh, good for them

[-] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 7 points 14 hours ago

What was their problem with Bon Jovi?

[-] nickiwest@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

Bon Jovi was one of the most popular bands of the '80s. They were a part of the mainstream that Alternative Rock was supposed to be an alternative to.

[-] natecox@programming.dev -1 points 5 hours ago

Its a good thing that Green Day disbanded and never played again when they became mainstream, it would have been really hypocritical of them to continue to exist at that point.

[-] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 5 points 17 hours ago

Z100 never pretended to be alternative. It's always been a top 40 station.

[-] cloudshouter@lemmy.zip 40 points 1 day ago

There are records of German soldiers not killing civilians and not doing other things the Nazis ordered. They did not suffer consequences. A lot of power for far right groups and the like is from compliance. Look at them like they are stupid and say no.

/r/AskHistorians: Is there any evidence where, during the Third Reich, a German has been punished for not participating in the genocide or war crimes?

Quite simply, in the past forty-five years no defense attorney or defendant in any of the hundreds of postwar trials has been able to document a single case in which refusal to obey an order to kill unarmed civilians resulted in the allegedly inevitable dire punishment. [Ordinary men, p. 170]

[-] gramie@lemmy.ca 9 points 22 hours ago

There was a German general on the Eastern front who refused to pass on the orders to exterminate all partisans and communists (i.e. Jews) from the territory they occupied. He refused, and was not disciplined.

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[-] quill7513@anarchist.nexus 96 points 1 day ago

i think Green Day is misunderstood as having watered down punk for the pop kids. i think what they really did is make pop for the punk kids

[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 63 points 1 day ago

That's my take too.

Their music isn't punk in the tonal sense. It's too neat and tidy, even in the early days. But the message has always been punk as fuck. And isn't that what matters?

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 5 points 19 hours ago

okay so i'm working on this kinda weird project (local musicians humor me because when i have a good idea, it's phenomenal) where i want the band to play the wrong musical instruments for the genre. kind of like this i get it's not the most original idea to do an I. Ron Butterfly on the pipe organ or something, but i somehow keep meeting harpists who i want to play something together with and i want one of my next few projects to be a blues band. i don't see how harp and blues go together but we could figure it out.

now that i think about it, it'd be really fun to do punk on the concertina. i know a great accordionist too...

[-] SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago
[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

it sounds like i need to talk to gavin bryars. i am not the best composer and the one i wanted to work with died three years ago.

[-] natecox@programming.dev 1 points 5 hours ago

Moon Hooch says hello.

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 14 hours ago

I feel like you'd really like bardcore.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

that's a safe assumption

[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 2 points 16 hours ago

That sounds like zydeco updated, and it sounds awesome :)

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[-] Eternal192@anarchist.nexus 142 points 1 day ago

Anyone here old as fuck and remember when BBC told RAtM that they aren't allowed to swear when they would play and the first words were FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!! and they were then cut off.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 7 points 19 hours ago

we were doing poetry analysis in high school, and the teacher wanted us each to bring in a song on cassette or cd or just write down the lyrics. we'd listen as a class and analyze it like poetry. his only condition was that we not bring in songs with profanity, mostly because there was always That Kid who would turn into an onion whenever they heard a swear. Well, Shitass Steve thought he'd be funny

FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME

the lyrics he'd distributed to the class insisted it was FUNK YOU not FUCK YOU. oh Shitass Steve, you were always entertaining.

[-] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 71 points 1 day ago

I saw Eminem perform the 1 year that Warped Tour had him. He was given the same instruction because it was also the first time they were televising it. They cut his mic almost immediately for swearing, he got pissed, dropped the mic on stage, and left.

Later when Pennywise performed, they brought people on stage and got the entire crowd chanting “fuck you” with their middle fingers up. That’s when they cut the live feed entirely and gave up.

Still one of the best concert experiences of my life. I wish I had video of how massive that audience was.

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It's like the classic story about The Doors on the Ed Sullivan Show, and before going on they told Jim Morrison that he had to censor himself (I think it was something as benign as "girl we couldn't get much higher" from Light My Fire). They gave him some lame alternative line to sing instead, and I guess he was like "yeah whatever."

Of course, when the time of the live performance came, he looked directly into the camera and sang the proper line.

When they were being ushered offstage afterwards, the producer (or Sullivan himself, I'm not sure) yells at Morrison and says something like, "The Doors will never play Ed Sullivan again!" And Morrison calmly replied, "hey man, we just did the Sullivan Show."

[-] Egonallanon@feddit.uk 34 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Christ that was 17 years ago.

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[-] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 186 points 1 day ago

Telling a punk band they can't do something is pretty much demanding they do it.

[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 3 points 14 hours ago

Unless they are most mainstream American punk bands, then they ignore the plight of the people.

[-] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 69 points 1 day ago

Like ratm in the radio told not to swear

[-] drolex@sopuli.xyz 85 points 1 day ago

Could you please stop raging so much? It scares the machine. Thanks for your cooperation

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 43 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

"Why can't you rage against the immigrants, queers, antifa, liberals, dei, sjw's, and jews just like jesus would've wanted?"

Meanwhile, how Jesus dealt with capitalists (aka "merchants" and "money changers"): Jesus flippin tables gif

[-] NABDad@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago

I'm going to be a pedantic asshole. Please ignore me. I can't help it.

  1. in the story, Jesus was more concerned with the corruption of the temple. If the merchants and money changers were set up in the commercial district, they would have been fine, but they were set up in the temple.

  2. Capitalism hadn't been invented yet. You've got to go forward to the Dutch East India Company or the British East India Company.

However, if he existed today, all signs seem to indicate to me that he'd be a RATM fan and a socialist.

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[-] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 day ago
I'm sorry I will not cooperate with you
I'm sorry I will not cooperate with you
I'm sorry I will not cooperate with you
I'm sorry I will not cooperate with you
Motherfucker
[-] hOrni@lemmy.world 33 points 1 day ago

I love that one. The chorus to the song is literally "fuck You, I won't do what You tell me". What did they think would happen?

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[-] fartographer@lemmy.world 23 points 1 day ago

In Ed Sheeran's defense, fuck Ed Sheeran.

[-] KeithD 7 points 16 hours ago

To be fair to Ed Sheeran, he's known and been alleged friends with Macklemore for years and had to have known that Macklemore was going to say "Free Palistine" at the concert. He just apparently didn't expect Robert Kraft, billionaire zionist and Epstein Files featured alleged sex offender, who he's also close to, to object to it like that. And, of course, he has absolutely no spine.

[-] D_C@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago

Whoa, whoa, calm down...you've forgotten to mention Robert Kraft. The zionist billionaire who started all this and who was/is in the Epstein files!!!

NEXT TIME MENTION HIM!!!

[-] SpruceBringsteen@lemmy.world 76 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Never been the biggest Green Day fan, but being an ally back then wasn't quite so accepted and it wasn't like they were going to get a pat on the back from social media from this.

Also worth mentioning that Etheridge had recently come out at this time. And it wasn't like she was some punk artist, you could find her getting plays on country stations. That could have been professional suicide at that time.

[-] pack@sh.itjust.works 56 points 1 day ago

I don't think people remember how rampent homophobia was in the 90's. Coaches called the kids gay slurs, news papers gleefully posting about politicans picked up in rest stop raids, people still thinking you could catch aids from touching or kissing. The little victories about gay characters on tv, or bands with queer coded songs must have been so empowering to kids who didnt have anywhere else to turn. The liberal position in most places was the don't ask dont tell policy, and even if they accepted you, they'd tell you to keep your mouth shut about it because it was dangerous for everyone to know.

Also, pansy division fucking rules, still play sometimes, and have incredibly funny filthy lyrics "Whipped my ass in tennis" is a banger.

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[-] ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 15 points 1 day ago

I love Pansy Division, they are the perfect mix of queer, oversexualisation and cringe!

So they pulled a reverse Ed Sheeran.

They also switched the words of Jesus of Suburbia to support Palestine at some huge concert years ago.

[-] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 day ago

I remember a lot of people thought Green Day and/or Billie Joe Armstrong were gay themselves. Not "gay" like uncool, but it was "known" among certain (read: older) people that the band was gay. I thought, "like Queen? How is that even remotely a bad thing?" And went on to enjoy every Green Day album I listened to (though, like many people, I started with Dookie).

Finally saw them live about 10 years ago. I've also seen Metallica, and two foreign bands I considered my favourite or second-favourite band at one point. Nightwish, from Finland. And ONE OK ROCK from Japan. Green Day was the best show I've been to. And it's got nothing to do with whether any of the performers were gay or not, or whether some boomers in the 90s thought they were. They just put on one hell of a good show. And, for all the hate they get from the metal community, so do Five Finger Death Punch. Saw them twice (only once by choice; the other time they were at a festival we went to for other performers) and they are awesome on stage. Meanwhile, ONE OK ROCK... we drove 8 hours to see these guys and they played for an hour, got tired, and dipped out. They weren't bad on stage, they just didn't do anything special. (Apparently they do a lot more back home in Japan, but they also sell out stadiums there, so it's a different energy.)

[-] Nollij@sopuli.xyz 23 points 1 day ago

I remember a lot of people thought Green Day and/or Billie Joe Armstrong were gay themselves. Not "gay" like uncool, but it was "known" among certain (read: older) people that the band was gay.

Billie Joe is openly bisexual, and "announced" it in a 1995 interview.

[-] ILikeTraaaains@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago

Famous person in the 90s: I fuck men and women.
Media in the 90s: Confirmed gay.

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this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2026
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