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KDE is actively proposing a Pro-AI contribution policy, with most rejecting any suggestions for AI use to be disclosed, or any consideration for environmental concerns (invent.kde.org)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net to c/linux@programming.dev

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Direct link to the LLM Policy Discussion: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-workspace/-/work_items/187

Example of a KDE dev not wanting environmental concerns to play any role, despite KDE having an environmental project:

Devs rejecting any notion of transparency by disclosing AI usage in code submissions (in direct opposition to advice from the FSFE):

And all of this is coming right after the debacle with an AI slop project being allowed to give a presentation at Akademy, and the person asking how this was allowed being blocked by KDE:

https://lemmy.nz/post/42029517

as well as the discussion thread bringing up legitimate concerns about AI usage being closed:

https://discuss.kde.org/t/sorry-to-bring-up-a-contentious-topic-kde-ai-llm-policy/46333/164

As someone who genuinely loves KDE, and has even donated to the project multiple times, I sadly have to accept that the majority of KDE have hopped onto the Pro-AI train, and they will not be dissuaded otherwise.

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[-] anzo@programming.dev -1 points 38 minutes ago* (last edited 36 minutes ago)

I am locking the thread because I consider this cherry picking comments from KDE maintainers misinformation. Let's wait and see where they go... The discussion as to include gen AI code, in which ways, how much, etc. is something that many projects (if not all) are undergoing. Let's be respectful to their open decision processes! This respectfulness needs to be regardless of whether we agree or not with what they do. Once they make a decision, sure, go ahead with flaming commentaries and endorsing alternatives or forks (if they appeared)

[-] 0x0@lemmy.zip 3 points 45 minutes ago

Guess I'll stay on xfce...

[-] ColdWater@lemmy.ca 6 points 5 hours ago

I switched to Niri a few months ago as an experiment but now I guess I will not go back to KDE anytime soon

[-] AceFuzzLord@lemmy.zip 33 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

It starts with "oh, just clean up any code generated" and "you must understand what your code does" and then in a decade that person won't remember how to code at all because they self-lobotomized themselves for the convenience.

[-] Sina@beehaw.org 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I don't think becoming a worse coder is necessarily a big problem as long as code review really happens, as long as the human in the picture retains their algorithmic thinking there is no lobotomy. Of course we all know how human laziness works, so thinking that people would actually keep reviewing code after they find no major issues N times in a row is a pipe dream.

And I don't know about you guys, but I for one dislike reading someone else's code. LLM generated blocks can be especially bad for testing my sanity.

[-] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 hour ago

Yeah when I'm reading code and it becomes obvious there was zero thought behind a bit of logic, I lose all will to care about understanding the code or even what it does.

[-] soratoyuki@piefed.zip 78 points 1 day ago

If slop coding is so great why is everyone so adamant about hiding it from users?

If you're not willing to disclose something, maybe take that as a hint.

[-] habitualTartare@lemmy.world 16 points 22 hours ago

As a user, I think this is the biggest issue I have with this policy. Disclosure is a big part of open source and hiding whatever tools are used is fundamentally against that philosophy.

[-] fruitcantfly@programming.dev 8 points 21 hours ago

Would you be willing to expand on what you mean by disclosure being a big part of open source?

I ask because it has not been my experience that OSS developers have ever had a habit of disclosing what tools they use. If you are lucky then a repo has instructions for contributors, that may describe tools being used, or CI configuration for running tests and linters, but most projects have neither. Mostly you just get instructions for building the project, but sometimes not even that

[-] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 2 points 59 minutes ago

In some projects you'll see a kind of a colophon section listing all the tools used in making some software. Not just obviously things like libraries, but OS, text editor, IDE, art tools, or even inspirations.

It's not everywhere, but it's frequent enough, and different from how proprietary software credits (or doesn't) to make it a distinction imo.

[-] Fierro@piefed.social 11 points 21 hours ago

I feel like using ai is like using drugs, they're bad, but regulating them is muuuuuuuch better than just prohibiting, people will use it anyways.

It's not a one to one comparison but I feel encouraging witch hunts will definitely do more harm than normalizing it.

To be clear, I don't want it either, I'm acknowledging it's the lesser of two evils.

[-] latetolemmy@lemmy.world -4 points 10 hours ago

I'm 12 and this is deep level of take right here

[-] Maddier1993@programming.dev 1 points 4 hours ago

I feel like using ai is like using drugs, they’re bad, but regulating them is muuuuuuuch better than just prohibiting, people will use it anyways.

crime won't happen because it is illegal?

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[-] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 23 hours ago

time to stop donating then. Ai crap results in death by a thousand cuts.

[-] nocteb@feddit.org 11 points 21 hours ago

You cannot tell from the code necessarily anyway so anti-AI policies are hard to enforce. In the end the developer (or AI wielding human) is responsible for the code quality and its license which is what matters. All this discussion feels just like the usual culture war dividing the community. I’m more concerned about the intentions of people adding fuel to the fire.

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[-] Sina@beehaw.org 5 points 19 hours ago

So many people say they reject AI, but then how can you even use desktop Linux?

The kernel & the popular browsers have an increasing number of AI contributions, there is no escaping this.

[-] MadhuGururajan@programming.dev 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Modern society is built on destruction and cruelty. Doesn't mean I can advice somebody to give up living in society and sound smart.

To suggest that "compromising on ideals for practicality" is the same as "roll-over and accept it" is dishonest and only done by people who want to win the argument by attrition so they get what they want.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 12 points 18 hours ago

As it is impossible to completely avoid AI use with Linux, I must content myself with only minimization instead of complete elimination, as I won't let the pursuit of perfection mean I just give up entirely. Any reduction is still meaningful, just as it's still worthwhile to minimize fossil fuel usage and meat consumption as much as is reasonably possible.

[-] nocteb@feddit.org -1 points 9 hours ago

This is all completely out of your control. You cannot tell people how to work in opensource and projects are completely unable to control if someone uses AI (or which one) to perform tasks, since it is not visible in the result. The easiest thing for you to do, if you don't want to take part in it, is to put down your phone and go outside.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

...No it isn't? I can choose what software I use, there are projects making efforts to avoid AI as much as is possible, and most contributors tend to follow guidelines, so having no-AI rules, while not 100% effective at avoiding AI code, will still drastically reduce what gets in, which is all I'm aiming for, and which is absolutely achievable.

I've noticed that virtually all Pro-AI people are constantly pushing this idea that resistance is futile, and that we all just have to accept AI into all aspects of our lives, almost like a cult. I even saw some if that rhetoric in the KDE proposal this thread is about.

You can drink the AI koolaid as much as you want, but you're not going to stop me from trying to limit it in my life wherever possible, and I'll continue to advocate for others to abstain for a multitude of reasoned arguments as well.

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