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submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by ReconciliationTime22128@sh.itjust.works to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

With the ever-ongoing ‘progress’ of the proposed UK nuclear power plants, I wonder if this is the best course of action (not just in the UK, but across other nations also)?

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[-] peacepath@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

I would say that the good answer is "mox" (not sure of its english name, but it is likely similar. Used uranium is extremly dangerous for a very long time (millions of years). Yet it could be recycled and used again, and the result would be extremly dangerous for about 500 years (which is still far too much, but less crazily impossible to manage).

We already have enough used uranium to cover the next 200 years of needs, at least... And so it would be a lesser harm for future generation if we use mox than new uranium...

(But the true answer is we need new bombs, so new uranium...)

[-] sunsofold@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 day ago

My understanding is the best answer is 'all of the above.' Nuclear is big and expensive, and just as expensive to expand, and has ongoing input costs like skilled staff, water, fuel, etc. but produces very steady, controllable power, and can do so for decades in a well designed and maintained system. Solar and wind, on the other hand, are very easily scaled down to smaller budgets, but generate intermittent power. It can be very useful to have the nuclear as a backup for moments of high demand and low solar/wind output, but very efficient to mostly use renewables because they don't have much of an ongoing input cost.

[-] expletivedeleted@lemmy.zip 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Well, don't forget that wind and solar also use battery systems, not that I am arguing with you at all. I work for a solar power company, and it is really rare that we aren't contributing to the grid.

When we aren't, it is because a deer decided to chew up a cable, honest to god. We put up fences: not to keep humans out, but deer.

Seriously, we have a site where the gate is "locked" with a 5' ethernet cable that has a burnt end. Recycle reuse!

But yes, nuclear is needed as the failsafe.

[-] Boe@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 12 hours ago

cable that has a burnt end.

That’s a bad use for good barbeque

[-] expletivedeleted@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 hours ago

I know, I need more copper and plastics in my diet.

[-] Bronzie@sh.itjust.works 1 points 14 hours ago

This is a good answer.

Nuclear for the base load that can be ramped up/down as needed, and using renewables like wind/solar/hydro as much as possible.

In my country it's mostly hydro, which is fantastic, but would be even better if we had nuclear as a base load solution and hydro to catch the peaks and for export.
Sadly most people fear nuclear here, so it won't happen soon.

[-] Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

Hey, I'm in the biz. "Either or" isn't a thing. We need a completely diversified grid. Mostly nuclear would be ideal with a big chunk coming from solar/wind/hydro. Even fossil fuels have a place in certain applications.

May I ask what you do if you don’t mind me asking?

[-] Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Mechanical engineer on the operations side of a large Co-Generation power plant. Partially qualified to operate in a nuke plant too, they just don't exist in my area.

Interesting. What kind of energy sources does your co-generation use? Part renewables, part fossil fuels I presume?

[-] Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

No, all natural gas with number 2 oil (diesel) as a backup. The co part comes from the fact the Brayton and Rankine cycles are working together. The former being how a gas turbine works and the latter being how a steam system works. I can go into more depth but it's boring. I like renewables, just not as a blanket one size fits all solution. People tend to form an oppinion about this kind of thing based on vibes not reality, experience or math. I've worked at hydro plants before and like I said am mostly qualified legally to work in nuclear.

So the planet's been using solar and wind for millions of years and it seems to have worked okay.

Yeah, but demand has ramped up, and it seems that wind/solar is no longer able to keep up, unless I’m missing something

[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago

I barely see wind and solar adoption. Most roofs don't have solar yet. Most fences aren't solar. Terrestrial Wind has better adoption on some scales but still largely untaped as with coastale wind.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

wind and solar. hydro is environmentally unfriendly but renewable. nuclear is not pratical long term, or in the short term, since it needs to build out an expensive nuclear plant, plus all the regulatory approval you need to get through, can easily take 10 years at the minimum and also there significant resistance to nuclear power plants being built in many states, plus all the need to hire expensive technicins, scientists to maintain a plant. solar, wind is much cheaper and faster to set up. Most govt is are totally resisting to fast track it. because Oil money is in politicians pockets.

our tech is not even close for things like fusion or even geothermal that is in alot of fantasy scifi genre right now.

[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

when you say "long-run" is it human life expectancy long or heat-death of the universe long?

I mean long run as in however long we are going to need/have/use it, basically. So, until humanity ceases to exist, ig?

[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 0 points 15 hours ago

wind/solar then. nuclear power requires long-term storage up to 250 years for waste to be safely disposed of. during those 250 years leakage and accidents can lead to environmental impacts.

though wind and solar has industrial waste and environmental impacts through their manufacturing, the long-term effects are manageable when compared to the scale of a nuclear superfund site for the entire longevity of humanity.

this is all assuming there is no further technological developments that would change the nuclear waste to nuclear fuel, as I know there are currently some developing fusion technologies that are using nuclear waste as a fuel to run 100% clean. should those technologies develop further and paired with nuclear power the risks are mitigated and nuclear+fusion become a clean leader of power.

[-] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Both are needed for a healthy power structure.

Wind, solar even with batteries have low innertia (actually no innertia at all by themselves). If you want to resist turbulences on the power network without free innertia resistance by turbines (nuclear, gas, hydro), you need expensive equipment to generate that innertia other ways, and it can get quite expensive.

Hydro would be great but it's highly seasonal.

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[-] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 41 points 2 days ago

Wind and solar. Pop up, pop down. Nuclear needs entrenched infrastructure. The future is always renewables.

[-] Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org 2 points 14 hours ago

Nuclear's also too risky in case of a natural disaster (i.e., an earthquake or a flood).

Looks to the East

Isn't it, Japan?

[-] jimmy90@lemmy.world 1 points 23 hours ago

and hopefully sea

[-] klankin@piefed.ca 3 points 1 day ago

Ok wait what's the plan for a cold still day? You need a base load supplier like nuclear for renewables to work

[-] btsax@reddthat.com 3 points 1 day ago

You use these things called "power lines" which make it easy to send electrical energy to different places

[-] klankin@piefed.ca 1 points 12 hours ago

Could a sworn the other ends of those had to do something - but I guess if you can just get free power from cables, take advantage of that shit girl

[-] Forester@pawb.social 5 points 1 day ago

Yes, because Checks notes we should power Great Britain with massive undersea transcontinental cables. Did I get that right?

[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

"Who unplugged the UK?"

[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago

Yeah they're are a couple interesting HVDC lines specifically for that so that renewals can cover a wider range of sun and wind zones.

Honestly still less infra then uranium

[-] Forester@pawb.social -1 points 23 hours ago

Lmao ok

If I remember correctly, it's about 5 million US dollars per kilometer of overhead high voltage DC lines you run. I'm going to assume that putting those cables under the English channel will cost three to eight times that much being generous.

[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 4 points 21 hours ago

It depends on the distance actually. It's the conversion stations that are expensive so as you cover longer distances and able to go even higher in volts the costs per km goes down

[-] btsax@reddthat.com 2 points 23 hours ago
[-] Forester@pawb.social 0 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

No those cables max out at 2GWh. The Britts would only need 45 times the current capacity that currently exists to function daily.

[-] btsax@reddthat.com 1 points 9 hours ago

Cool, build them then

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[-] PlzGibHugs@piefed.ca 15 points 2 days ago

It depends on a lot of factors, which is part of why the question is divisive. To oversimplify:

On one hand, when done optimally, nuclear provides huge amounts of power extremely cleanly and safely - even compared to renewables. There is also a number of options that could allow for significantly reduced costs and significantly increased flexibility such as SMRs, or other reactor technologies. On the other hand, nuclear has a mountain of roadblocks in front of it including antinuclear sentiment, policy blocks (particularly stemming from that sentient), and a lack of know-how increasing cost and slowing both building of reactors and development of new technologies. This means it could be amazing in the long term, particularly in regions that are suboptimal for renewables, and for industries requiring large amounts of power 24/7, but it can't do much in the short-term.

Renewables meanwhile, are cheap, fast and easy to build and easy to expand to the point where until ideal conditions, even individuals can afford to install and run their own electrical infrastructure. As such, its amazing to quickly reduce prices, reduce emissions, and reduce dependence on governments. On the other hand, most renewable options lack flexibility. Solar only runs half the day, and the further you are from the equator, the lower the efficacy. Wind takes up huge amounts of space. Hydro requires damable rivers and space to avoid destroying ecosystems. There's lots of options, but they also have large limits. As technology improves these will limits will be reduced (such as improving battery technology) but they are still present.

Ultimately, this means that where available, renewables are nearly always best in the short term. Long term, it gets messier, since it depends on what we invest in now, which technologies end up going somewhere versus being dead ends, and how the world changes in general. Most predict a mixed approach would be best, both to address the variety of global needs, and to spread risk. All that said, global warming is, at this point, a short-term problem. We can't afford to focus on the long-term anymore, which is why there is so much focus on renewables. We need to be replacing and expanding infrastructure yesterday so we don't have time to wait for nuclear, and debatably, can't afford to be investing in an energy technology that won't pay off for decades when that could be further invested in renewables.

[-] Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org 1 points 14 hours ago

I think that part of the antinuclear sentiment, while it's in part irrational, has something to do with a very rational fear: whe have longly seen the devastating effects of nuclear accidents. From Chernobyl to Tōkai-mura, and from there to Fukushima.

While theoretically the human risks are reduced to almost zero, the natural risks hadn't run the same luck.

Also, I feel that for the renewables, one big deal that we're missing are the microenergy leaks (although in Japan they're already beginning to take advantage of these, with for example piezoelectric roads, or water heating systems that at the same time generate residual electricity, or Peltier heaters and/or coolers that as they acclimatize also generate complementary amounts of energy).

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this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2026
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