Asklemmy

I had assumed beehaw had already defeded. Since I've been using lemmy, there has never not been some discussion about beehaw and their federation/defederation choices and discussing the intricacies of those decisions. For whatever reason, I haven't really seen anything from or about beehaw since joining this instance so I presumed they defeded. Prior to that, it seemed hit or miss whether or not I'd get the privilege of seeing beehaw.

All that is to say, with the way you've handled moderation, if you left the fediverse it would probably just make everyone's lives simpler. It's going to be a "shit or get off the pot" from me, dawg.

When you say "leaving the fediverse", do you mean leaving the platform/protocol altogether, or just defederating from everywhere?

Either way, I would think it'd be a loss for the community and the broader fediverse, but ultimately it's your decision. There seem to be some free speech absolutists ITT, but personally I think taking the approach of aggressive defederation is perfectly valid.

I'm curious, what benefit do you see in total seclusion?

I recall beehaw having some good communities when I was first on Lemmy this summer, but I haven’t seen much from there on Kbin or the lemmies I use - presumably because beehaw defederated for whatever reason. If you’re not going to be connected to the largest instances anyway, what’s the difference?

Sure, having a standalone forum is a legitimate thing to do, like it always has been since the start of the internet. Seems like it would be harder to grow the site without the network effect of the rest of Lemmy though.

Walled gardens rarely survive long enough for it to matter, so do what to wish.

I'm on kbin, but have enjoyed the discussions I've had or read on beehaw. I've mostly lurked.

You're clearly trying to get social media right, and I respect that. Obviously it would be a loss for the fediverse if you left, however you are volunteers, it is your community. You owe the fediverse nothing. You should put the safety of your own users first.

If you do leave the fediverse for good, please let us know. I would consider joining beehaw or another forum/community to join/follow some of the discussions I've seen on beehaw. Especially discussions on sensitive topics that are harder to have in other parts of the fediverse.

The one thing I will say, is that leaving the fediverse will make you less known/accessible to people who need a safe online community. Of course, I suspect it'll also keep out some of the people who cause more moderation and safety concerns. So it's quite a dilemna.

I'd miss you guys. I've jumped in on conversations on your instance a couple of times and it always seems like a nice place

The fuck are you asking non bee haw users for?

As a fellow lemmy.world user, I gotta say: Jesus Christ y'all are brutal lol

I replied to another user, but I'm sharing it in a main reply to add my voice to the base level comments.

I want a safe place to be, while looking out into a wider sea of content (albeit through the filter of Beehaw’s defederation, which I really appreciate). When the trolls and the assholes get too much, I like to be able to retreat back to just Local feed setting and be safe again. If beehaw was to be a separate platform, I’d lose that.

Beehaw is a shining beacon in an ocean of content, good and bad. I’d love that beacon to remain, so more people can find safety here if they need it.

Personally I think it would be unfortunate. I like some of the communities on beehaw I'm subscribed to, but I'm not sure I'd bother to switch over. Even right now, many posts I see don't get any interactions, others just a few and that's with users from other instances. I'd imagine starting over would kill many of these communities off almost entirely.

Stop it, this is a bad idea.

Decently new lemmy world user here, never heard of BeeHaw before. Don't think I'll miss it.

I guess there is no need for further commentary on why the strict moderation of a "safe space"/walled garden cannot keep up with the growth of such an open space as activitypub.

So in response to the title, I would think this is fantastic news! You say your principle is "be nice", which I think is great and I wish it was the general norm, but from what I've seen and heard it would be more like "you better think like us, because we aggressively enforce political correctness and ideological censorship". It would be a pity to lose its users, but I simply hate to end up on beehaw by mistake and would be happier to see it disappear.

Can someone explain all the hate against Beehaw to me? I run a private instance, so I don't really keep up with Lemmy politics

Don't know why you would ask here since it's a decision that should be made by your users for your users...

From Beehaws docs on defederation:

We are simple with defederating: we do not allow hate speech, and we must consider our own limits when it comes to moderating. If an instance allows hateful speech or in our judgement has users who are too much for us to currently manage given the state of Lemmy, we defederate with it.

If the goal is to limit hate speech and provide a safe space on Beehaw, then I think you should defederate from the fediverse. I think however the value in providing a safe(r) platform for engaging with the rest of the fediverse to be more valuable, but I am personally in no need of such a safe space myself.

I abandoned Beehaw and went to Lemmy World because you made the decision to defederate after Reddit shat the bed.

So it wouldn't make much of a difference to me. I only left my Beehaw account dormant because that instance gave me the impression of being like yet another Tildes, and I kinda wanted to be with the main Reddit exodus crowd.

Personally I'd be sad to see Beehaw go. I enjoy several of your communities and I think the wider fediverse would be poorer for it. But you need to do what's best for you. Best wishes to you no matter what you decide ☮️💙🙂

I would consider the users of Lemmy disenfranchised, whether they were the OGs or the refugees who did not want to be part of a corporate structure that is Reddit.

As for your goal of being nice, you can be a private instance with a very detail form with long list of questions that applies to your values. This will cut down new users joining and only those that are willing to go through the process of joining will show the commitment.

Having said that, having a closed door policy on the fediverse defeats the purpose of being on fediverse. If you truly only want, how you define disenfranchised, then fediverse may not be the right platform and you will always be left wondering.

I wouldn't leave. Starting from scratch again would spin off too many users. Beehaw already has some subs that are already somewhat anemic. The fediverse still needs users and high-quality discussions since facebook, reddit, and digg ravaged the many forums of old that used to exist.

I'm on .world, so I'm already defeated and it wouldn't impact me currently. Before we became deferred, I thought some of the communities there were good and it was a loss (though understandable) when we became defederated.

All that being said, I've often thought and said that Beehaw's lofty goal of a troll and harassment free space on the Internet wasn't well suited to having Lemmy as an underlying platform. I'd rather see you relocate someplace where you have a better chance of achieving your goals.

If Beehaw defederates, I will no longer think or care about Beehaw, since at the end of the day, the power of federation is by far the coolest thing in the fediverse; I am not interested in joining another Reddit clone! No hard feelings though, do what you think is right!

I am a kbin user and I like to see the opinions expressed by beehaw users.

1. Also a Tildes.net user.
2. Where would Beehaw go to?
3. Sad that we're blocked for no reason. :-/
4. If the Fediverse can’t keep instances connected and aligned, then there’s not much hope for when Meta’s Threads joins. It will be defederation deluxe.
5. Maybe that’s their whole plan. ;-)

I joined because its federated and the people who run it. If beehaw defederates ill go somewhere else, albeit sadly.

Raddle.me is a good example. Because its not federated i just never go despite it being a fine community. Its not big enough to be its own thing worth visiting outside of it being federated content.

It would be sad. There’s great communities and members in beehaw and they make great contributions to the fediverse. What would be the reason to leave? What goals does beehaw have that are limited by Lemmy?

You will be missed. However, do your thing. I think you should first consider maybe adapt to your current situation and update your original goals. Evaluate your current goals instead of evaluating the tools to achieve past goals.

I like the policy of "Be Nice" even when I get annoyed that I can't down vote. Tho a ultimatum like this would make me switch to another server. Why? Well first of all Lemmy is supposed to be federated imagine if Google did this with gmail, it would not end well. Secondly even if I like content from Beehaw communities I do enjoy and contribute to other instances, and would not follow BeeHaw if it where to defederate. The reason I chose and have stayed on BeeHaw is that ultimately it was my choice to use this instance and follow the rules, defederation would not allow me the freedom to be anywhere but on BeeHaw, and that sounds like the walled garden that I left behind. And those platforms end up hurting people allot. I would hate for BeeHaw to end up like it, and would way less be there to see it happen.

TLDR: I want the freedom to chose the rules I want to abide by and would not support this. And would migrate to another instance if this where to go forward.

I hope you decide to stick around ❤️

Sad, but your choice will be completely understandable, I wish #beehaw success anyways, I had mostly positive experience with it users.

I'm subscribed to a number of beehaw communities, so it would be a loss for me.

Do you have a plan for recruiting new users? Lemmy already struggles there and it's one of the bigger platforms. If we move even further from the mainstream, I'm afraid we'd slowly wither away as people leave and aren't replaced.

I don't see how the idea of being a safe space is compatible with being federated because the biggest opposition to safe spaces is the average person. Being federated with the average internet person is going to keep it from being a safe space, so federation is in direct opposition to your goal.

That isn't saying the goal of beehaw is wrong, just that the goal is not compatible with the average person.

Good luck out there, whatever path is chosen.

We decided that our ‘Northern Star’ or guiding principle would culminate as ‘Be Nice’ with purposefully vague/flexible interpretations. Our overall goal is to provide a safe space to disenfranchised persons.

Oh look, someone failed to absorb one of the lessons of Letter from Birmingham jail

https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

After catching up on this issue some more, (since you already defederated my instance) I can’t help but think about the whole pc principal season of South Park with all the mentions of safe space. https://youtu.be/sXQkXXBqj_U

With that said, yes ppl are toxic here for sure. Way too much negativity.

If you’re eventually going to leave anyway the fewer users you take with you the better for lemmy and the fediverse. Going now would be less damaging in the long run to those vs growing more users and then leaving.

I joined beehaw during the rexodus because it seemed like a good community and a good part of the fediverse. I started contributing monthly to keep the instance going.

I tend to browse All more than Local. If beehaw does defederate, I would likely find a new instance and contribute there instead. I don't mean this to sound threatening, but I'm not going to give money to something I don't use.

When I first heard of beehaw I had really high hopes and was genuinely excited about the idea of a safe space for marginalised people, but when I saw this being framed as "be nice" without exception or nuance a bunch of red flags started waving, to paraphrase - "you can't be nice to everyone, because being nice to certain people is inherently cruel to others", and I was soon proven right in my concerns, with sprinkles on top - beehaw is a typical liberal (not leftist) space, where criticism of the status quo or swearing at bigots and bootlickers is seen as "not nice", but "polite" bigotry or even genocide denial are a-ok (those being the tankie-sympathising sprinkles I was referring to)..

Good luck to you I guess, but having already blocked your domain, you won't be missed, not by me anyway. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Well it sounds like a shittier version of Reddit.

Which is hard to do so congrats?