I don't understand how this wasn't more of a priority to begin with. If you're going to offer a digital solution for something it should at least be as convenient as the existing physical solution.
this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
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Hah. To swap eSIM on O2 in the UK, you have to order a physical pack that gets posted to you with the QR code in. There is no way to get the code to appear on a screen you can scan with your camera, or in an app on the phone you can transfer to the phone's eSIM manager. It's so dumb.
That's so dumb. When I moved over to Google Fi, I put the sim in, the phone ported the number, then I chucked the sim into the fucking trash. Whenever I get a new phone, I just need to sign in on wifi and Google does the rest.
Granted -- I only use phones designed to work on Fi [Nexus/Pixels], but I prefer vanilla Android.
Also I have a data only sim if I need it for anything. Right now I'm waiting on my Clockwork Pi to finally ship.
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That is very dumb with Verizon in the US you just type in the esim imei online and submit it and it auto downloads and activates the esim on your phone very easy.
This is just an assumption, but I thought the whole point was to make it more difficult for people to switch carriers?
Also because it's locking another aspect of the device behind software that you do not have control over, which gives carriers and phone manufacturers some new levers to exact control over how and what you do.
Because evidently we haven't learned our lesson yet.
Like when the SD card slots got taken away, and now not only are most phones storage non-expandable, you can't even use a proper file explorer on Android anymore.
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Uh, I assumed that was a minimum viable product requirement.
I've been avoiding eSIMs like a Boomer avoids anything tech because I don't understand them, and now I'm glad I did.
SIM cards work fine; other than waste reduction, what's the point of eSIM?
I still prefer a physical SIM for my main cell plan, but when travelling to other countries it is so amazing to be able to just download an eSIM and avoid roaming fees. Airalo is quite convenient, but I hear it’s getting pricey compared to other options.
Plus with dual SIM I can disable roaming on my main SIM but still receive texts for free, but use data for cheap with the local eSIM at the same time.
Disclaimer: I live in Canada which has some of the most expensive cell plans in the world. Roaming in the US is $13 CAD/day and $16 CAD/day in the rest of the world. That seems like blatant extortion to me, they can’t blame Canada’s large size for expensive roaming fees (right?). I think US plans are a lot better, and I assume European cell plans are generally even cheaper.
Edit: I prefer physical SIMs for my main plan because if my main phone is dead or broken, I can just pop the physical SIM in an old phone that I bring while travelling. Until eSIMs can be somehow transferred like that, I don’t see myself using them for my main cell plan. Just remember to set a SIM PIN so that if someone steals your phone, they can’t use your SIM card to receive 2FA texts.
Edit 2: eSIMs are generally a pain to transfer between phones. I think my cell provider lets you do it online by scanning a QR code, but I know some make you call them and read 16 digit codes over the phone. Some even charge a small fee. I dread the day where other cell phone manufacturers follow what Apple did in the US (I think?) and make eSIMs the only option.
Well, on the other hand, do you just understand how simple cards work? I for sure don’t and I don’t see why I would need a chip from my provider to access it’s services, if I can get a digital key instead.
I like that I can switch phones with a physical card. IPhone to android still no way.
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As I understand it (I've done literally zero research), it's to prevent spam/spoofing, at least in the US. With a physical card, you can't just instantly convert your phone to a different number and carrier. Now, with all the robocalls I get, there's obviously still more work to be done...
Spoofing what? Imei numbers? Phone number spoofing is not solved by this. With VOIP you can literally tell it to send whatever number you want to be its caller I'd.
Not that simple type of spoofing. The kind where I could set up a phone with your number on your network that the network thinks is yours and then intercept your incoming calls and text messages. Including being able to get your security texts to verify who you are when I would change your passwords, emails, banking info, stock accounts, etc.
I could see security being one but the only reason that I got one is lack of dual sim tray on my pixel
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Okay, now do it when the phone is broken.
The hard way I see.
physical sims can be swapped regardless of OS or whatever arbitrary limitation they impose on us.
i still dont get why esims are a thing besides imposing more control over us
When I traveled across the world last year it took me 5 minutes to sign up for a temporary cell plan in the country I was visiting, then install the eSIM from my phone’s web browser. I didn’t have to plan ahead and wait for them to mail me a SIM card so I could juggle around SIMs while abroad. I much prefer that over a physical SIM card.
im glad you had a good experience in the random country you were in.
but have you ever dealt with most carriers? also who waits for sim cards in the mail instead of just buying one?
For reference, this was in Japan. From my experience, there weren’t SIM card vendors until you get through customs. That could be a 2 hour long process from landing to entering the country before you can get a SIM and communicate with family or your travel arrangements at your destination. It also won’t be doing you any favors if you need to pull up documentation on your phone to provide to the customs agent, like your return ticket.
I can buy an eSIM and install it before leaving my home and verify it works instantly. It’s just a better experience than the alternative.
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Maybe in somewhere free like the EU or SEA. In the US, most phones bought from a carrier (and most sales are that way, some exclusively so) are locked so that no other SIM (e or physical) can be used.
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How do these eSIMs work from a user's perspective? I've only ever had phones with physical sim slots
Effectively, imagine there's a SIM card soldered to the motherboard of the phone, you can then download an eSIM to it and the phone behaves as if it's a physical SIM.
In reality it's generally built into the modem and I believe they can typically hold multiple eSIMs. What I'm not clear on is if inactive eSIMs actually live in the hardware eSIM or if they get swapped in by the OS
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on T-Mobile USA: I preordered my iPhone 15; the QR eSIM and automated SIM transfer system was completely down and I had to spend 30 minutes to an hour on the phone with customer service to swap over my physical SIM to an eSIM I could type (IIRC) into my new phone.
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Yeah same, I want to know how you move phones if one breaks, or any number of similar situations where you can't run an app or access another device
Its a shitty replacement. If I couldnswap phones like a sim card i wouldn't care. But they charge for a phone swap no thanks.
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Exactly the same as a normal one. It just works and you don't really need to do anything with it. Everything seems the same just no little card in the side of your device.
Until this article I thought you could swap eSIMs between phones, exactly like normal ones
Tbh I think you effectively could, but it would technically be your provider issuing a new one.
For me I just log into my provider's online account screen and I'm able to scan a new QR code
Eh that's not really the same. And reading this thread it seems many providers (including mine) don't support online QR codes.
That's unfortunate, at least in the UK all the (eSIM supporting) providers seem to offer the same capability.
As I've said elsewhere a physical SIM is slightly better in the situation where you smash your phone and buy a new one as you don't need to connect your new phone to the phone shop's WiFi for 5 mins (scanning the QR code is the quick way, you can just type an alphanumeric code in too, some carriers let you download it via an app). On the flip side though, if your phone is stolen, I still just need the WiFi for 5 mins. With a physical SIM, it would be sent to my home address and arrive a couple of days later.
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What if I need to change the SIM?
You get a QR code for the new sim, go into the eSIM manager on the phone, and scan it
I don't want a "new sim", I want my old one, which doesn't exist anymore since it was virtual and only existed in my now broken previous phone. How does it work in that situation?
Call your carrier or go into a store and they move it over. If your phone is broken you’ll kinda be SOL since there’s no way to authenticate the move.
Exactly. What a shitty anti-feature. Your answer proves that the people saying that "eSIMs are functionally the same as normal SIM" are full of absolute shit.
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@AdmiralShat @FragmentedChicken phones that support esims have actual sim chips inside, and esims basically flash the carrier data onto that chip.
They're functionally the same as normal SIM, instead it is stored in a secure location of the storage (which can survive factory reset). In a way, it makes it a bit more secure as a thief can't just yank out the SIM card to avoid being tracked (although it doesn't defeat a faraday bag) or take it out to use it in another phone.
The major function of a normal SIM is the ability to take it out of one device and put it into another one, effectively disconnecting my identity towards the network provider, from the handset. With eSIM, that doesn't exist, and if my phone breaks, it's unclear what happens.
To me, that's not secure, that's unsafe and insecure.
From a corporate device perspective it's an interesting evolution though, since we can remotely provision an eSIM through our mobile device management platform. No SIM to handle from the user point of view, and they can't take it out.
that doesn't exist
Well fwiw, the post we're commenting on is about that now existing.
the ability to take it out of one device and put it into another one, effectively disconnecting my identity towards the network provider, from the handset
Unless you think that taking a SIM out of a phone means that the phone is no longer connected to you, which isn't the case at all. A phone's IMEI is sent along with the SIM data as part of the initial handshake to make a mobile connection, your carrier knows the make, model and serial number of every phone you've ever put your SIM card in. The police in most countries make them keep track of which cell towers that combo of IMEI and SIM connect to and at what times. There's no privacy in using a mobile network you pay a bill for.
that's not secure
Obviously this isn't the be all and end all of security, but an eSIM slightly improves device security because a thief would be unable to remove it and disable any theft tracking measures which require network access. (Yes I know about EM shielded bags, but most thieves are opportunists)
The only real advantage of a physical SIM is that if you smash your phone up, you can walk into a shop and put it into a new phone without needing an internet connection first. If I smash my phone up, I need a WiFi network to hook my new phone up to the network. On the flip side, if I get robbed abroad, the process is the same. With a physical SIM it's gonna get sent to my home address.
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This thread made me wonder how often y'all change phones. It sounds like four times a day.
No. Once every few years. However, the gap in service is absolute disaster in modern society. Without a phone, you can't use public transport, can't pay for parking, can't get a taxi/uber/competitor, etc. etc.
Any "progress" that makes the turnaround time longer when your phone breaks is a horrible and unacceptable downside.
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Nice. That is always the most tedious and annoying part of switching phones every single time for me.
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