Checkout framework.laptop
this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2023
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+1 to framework. I have one and love it, works amazing with linux (is especially well supported by fedora, but any distro works) and you get really good repairability, upgradability, and customizability hardware wise.
+1 for the Framework laptop from https://frame.work/ . It's my favorite laptop I've ever owned and the Linux support is excellent. There's a healthy Linux community surrounding this laptop and the Arch wiki even has an entire aricle dedicated to it.
I just got one for my wife.
Their stock was low so I got the German model+a US keyboard and did the swap.
There were a lot of screws, took about 45 minutes, just put some music on and went to town. Their documentation is top notch.
Really pretty awesome.
Too expensive though.
My experience is the complete opposite.
I pre-ordered a 13 inch DIY Ryzen 7840u with 32 gigs and it cost me 1600€. I will spend another 50 on an SSD. Not sure you can get that kind of hardware for less, elsewhere.
A similarly specced XPS for example is easily a couple hundred more.
Edit: just checked again, at least Dell Italy only sells the 13 XPS with a 13th (or 12th) gen Intel. Fine, I don't really mind it. But it sells for 2100€ (with 32GB, a 1TB drive and an OLED display). I guess that the OLED alone might be worth the price difference.
The point tho is that even at the same price, I'd still take framework's repairability any day.
Funny thing is, I'm gonna replace my current XPS 13 with an 11th gen Intel just because the RAM is not upgradable and I'm stuck with 16gigs.
I'm sick and tired of having to get rid of perfectly fine hardware just because it's not upgradable.
With framework I can spend another 100-150 down the road and bump my config's 32 to 64.
@happyhippo @bankimu but if your not looking to spend 2000+ on a laptop then they don't offer anything. and the price for their min spec is insane a ryzen 5 8gb or ram and 250gb of storage. no ports, pretty standard display for $1,300 is insane
You can instead, for instance, get a Dell latitude with 32GB i7, for less than $1000. It comes preinstalled with an inferior "OS" (rather sales, telemetry and data harvesting avenue), Windows 11 Pro. But it begs to be wiped and installed Fedora or Arch or some other useful OS, which is easily done.
Framework :)
Thinkpads generally work quite well with Linux from what Ive heard.
Thinkpad is a excellent choice for Linux as Lenovo supports Linux on some machines. I am rocking an old intel 4th gen Notebook as sidekick to my main machine. Works like a charm and was cheap.
Some people mentioned Framework and I would definitely look into it, however you didn't specify your country and they don't sell everywhere in Europe. I was just in a market for a new laptop and really wanted it but it's not available in my country.
Another options for an out of the box Linux laptop are Slimbook, Tuxedo Computers and Starlabs. I personally just ordered Slimbook Executive 14 yesterday.
I’ve exclusively used Thinkpads with Linux as my daily driver since 20 years now. Programming, office, general tinkering (no graphics-intensive stuff though) - had almost no issues in the whole time.
IMHO for Linux, you really can’t go wrong with any Thinkpad nowadays.
I'm currently running (and have been for well over a year), an x1 carbon 5th Gen. I daily it for work, running Opensuse tumbleweed.
It's arguably the greatest laptop running Linux experience I've had. I have a 2015 MacBook pro running Opensuse Leap, which is also really good. But the keyboard is far better on the X1C.
Im bouncing between my desk and various buildings all day for work, so I never really stretch the batteries wings. It's good for up to 3 hours (depending on work load) I feel like... But I've not really tested it. I always have the machine with me and could charge it up and put it through its paces this weekend if it would be of interest to you? Obviously this machine has been around awhile, and I'm not even certain of the battery's health.
Edit: Just wanted to add, 10/10, would HIGHLY recommend!
Just stay away from anything that has a dedicated Nvidia GPU. I have tried everything, still no distro apart from popOS! that didn't massacre my battery....
This might help with that.
Still, I regret ever buying a Nvidia Optimus laptop.
I don't mind mine. It works fine in Fedora, but I only use it for CUDA/AI stuff and no gaming. I probably could game, but haven't cared to go down into that money pit yet.
I screwed up and followed outdated advice and guides for my initial install and config. That broke the proprietary driver after the first kernel update. After reading the official Fedora documentation, I now have the self compiling kernel driver that automatically updates itself after ever kernel change.
As far as AI, a laptop with a 3080Ti with 16GBV is quite capable. There is nothing else that comes close to that much VRAM in a mobile device.
If you can get a Carbon X1, do it. Yes the battery is smaller but it's a sleek laptop so portability is high.
And if you're doing heavy work just plug in the charger.
Thinkpad X1 Carbons are absolutely flawless in Linux... I've used Gen 5s and now have a Gen 9.
Gen 10 checking in, still works flawlessly.
You can't beat the ease of firmware updates either. lvfs/fwupdmgr take care of updates for both my laptop and Lenovo TB4 docking station.
gen 7 is 10th gen intel right? Should work just fine. I'm on a P14s with Ryzen 5000, works flawlessly on Debian 12.
The bootloader functionality is the main thing you really want to know but is hard to find out in most cases. If you can find a machine that accepts custom keys with secure boot you're better off. There are methods that enable secure boot without the ability to add custom keys, but this involves special 3rd party keys signed by Microsoft. It also makes kernel mods a pain if not impossible. The only machines you can fully control are those that can accept custom keys.
There is an excellent guide that describes every aspect of this, including the attack vectors, vulnerabilities, and peripheral uses of the system. It is from the US government here: https://media.defense.gov/2020/Sep/15/2002497594/-1/-1/0/CTR-UEFI-Secure-Boot-Customization-UOO168873-20.PDF
The only other reference I have found with additional information is from a Gentoo guide that describes how to boot into the UEFI system and make changes directly. This may be an option if you can't alter secure boot.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Sakaki/Sakaki%27s_EFI_Install_Guide/Configuring_Secure_Boot
Again, this only really applies to modern hardware with secure boot, and only in instances where you may need to run custom kernels or modules other than those that come presigned by distro packagers using Microsoft's 3rd party key.
I have a Thinkpad X1 running the latest Ubuntu desktop. Works great, suspend works, hibernate works, etc. All in all running perfectly though I haven't tried the fingerprint reader.
The fingerprint reader is a bit of a gimmick anyway. I used it for a week then went back to my pin
Most hardware works flawless in Linux, usually the worse thing that can happen is a propriatary Wifi or Bluetooth module but those are usually really easy to replace. Power managment isn't the absolut best tho so you will probably have a little bit less battery life over all.
I use my Windows work laptop as my personal laptop by booting Ubuntu off an external SSD. It is connected through the laptop's thunderbolt USB C port, and Ubuntu runs smoothly without any issues as if it were off the internal drive. And not the most elegant solution, but I have Velcro strips on the drive and laptop, so to transform from work computer to personal, I just stick the drive on, plug it in, and boot up Linux! And the best part is that because it's a completely different drive, there are no personal files/data actually saved on the work computer.
I have used Thinkpad x230, x1 3rd Gen, and x1 6th Gen. All of them have been flawless with Linux.
My main machine is still a x230. I don't notice the difference between it and my Ryzen desktop unless I'm compiling something big.
HP EliteBooks are usually very supported out of the box and work flawlessly, even with Debian. Lenovo is no longer a good brand, they now have weird issues such as a simple USB 3 cable passing along the back of the laptop will slow it down because the laptop's EM shielding isn't properly done.
I've never heard or seen this. Mine has it setup like that to the dock - is there anywhere I can read about this issue? Generally my hardware from Lenovo has been amazing and well supported.
For context, 3 years ago I worked at a company that bought 20 new Lenovo IdeaPads all equipped with i7 CPUs and 32GB of RAM. After 6 months only 3 or 4 survived. All of them had that shielding issue, others started to fail randomly like microphones not working, failing USB ports , screen glitching out or other issues. One of them even broke by itself during a firmware upgrade. We ended up going back to HP because, at least, they're reliable.
I'm always surprised when people buy the non-thinkpads for work, and then wonder why the break, as they are home use at best. The ideapad and their other line are not commercial grade, definitely avoid. But the ThinkPads are in my experience the best, most rugged made systems on the market
Well hardware suppliers still sell IdeaPads to companies. But you see them small things... that lack of proper EF shielding doesn't happen in HP consumer lines.
Regardless, if you're buying the cheapest computer, you're going to get corners cut. I've had my share of HP shortcuts even in their elite book lines, used to buy 150-200 a year for work. They were ok, but the lower models were terrible. This em shielding thing seems weird to me, you're saying the cables aren't shielded on their own and interfere with computing equipment: that doesn't have special shielding? I've had my laptop's open, never seen any shielding from the outside... Just heat shielding from itself really but maybe it's delicate and tiny?
When I talked about EM shielding I wasn't strictly talking about shielding metal plates inside your computer. Although certain components might be shielded with metallic plates most components are tested for EM compatibility with other devices (they have to by law) and there are different possible levels of EM interference resistance and hardening. What I've noticed with cheap brands is that their components usually tend to be cheaply built and very susceptible to EM interferences. This doesn't happen in brands like HP or Asus, they take a lot of attention to that detail. And yes, that typical copper heat shielding sometimes doubles as EM shielding.
X1C gen8, been running fedora daily since 35. An update may have knocked bluetooth or hdmi power management out of balance once or twice, but the next one fixed it. Firmware updates come through beautifully. All in all, not a single complaint. Battery's holding up great as well. I maybe get ~5-6hrs of hd video in full brightness, if that helps at all.
Thinkpads are usually really good with linux support. I don't know about the new ones tho. I always see people post about their T420 or older
That's my current laptop since 2+ years go and I love it. Battery lasts a day no prob for regular work. If you're constantly compiling it won't, but then on battery it throttles a lot so it gives you good balance.
Anyway, with tlp you can tweak it a lot, I'm mostly going with the defaults, just lowered the max charge to protect the battery.
Only thing not working out of the box on Ubuntu is the fingerprint reader. I read that there are ways but I haven't bothered.
Another place to look is at Lenovo laptops, I've had no problems installing Linux on them, and catch the right sale and you can get some really nice deals, though you have to be careful as they have a ridiculous number of variations on each model, some existing only for a single special deal.
Currently typing this on my X1 Carbon Gen 9 with PopOS. It works great. Battery life is about 20% better than it was with Windows but Pop is optimized for laptops and most distros are a bit worse on battery.