this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2024
163 points (97.1% liked)

Asklemmy

43962 readers
1199 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy πŸ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] atlasraven31@lemm.ee 90 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Magneto in the 90s. He even built an asteroid as a refuge for any mutant.

[–] turkishdelight@lemmy.ml 31 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

The older I get, more I agree with Magneto.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 25 points 8 months ago

More like, the older the character gets, the more they update his backstory to be something the audience can sympathize with. Because a villain for villain's sake gets old fast.

[–] FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 17 points 8 months ago

Magneto ftw. Xavier is a naive little bitch.

"You're always sorry, Charles ...and there's always a speech!....but nobody cares."

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 20 points 8 months ago (1 children)

A Bioshock-like game set on Asteroid M would be, if you will excuse the parlance, baller.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] idiomaddict@feddit.de 60 points 8 months ago (14 children)

In the third season of the legend of korra, a group of people try to get rid of a monarchy (which is long established as especially unequal and oppressive) in favor of self government. They also try to get rid of the avatar, because she is an infallible being with incredibly outsized power. I love the avatar universe and get how they needed to fight them, but the group wasn’t wrong

[–] ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml 55 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Even the first season had Amon, the guy that wanted equality between benders and non-benders. At one point we're even shown that power was cut to a predominantly non-bender neighborhood, and when people went outside to protest to get their power turned back on, they were all rounded up and arrested. Afterwards, when Korra goes and tries to get the people that were arrested set free, she's told

All equalist suspects are being detained indefinitely. They'll be freed if and when the task force deems them no longer a threat.

Just in case it wasn't clear enough by that point that non-benders were treated as second class citizens.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] paultimate14@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I've been meaning to re-watch Korra, but I remember even the first time I watched it being a bit disappointed in the "enlightened centrism" where they are trying to paint every conflict as pacifists vs extremists.

I think it's similar to looking at BioShock 1 and BioShock Infinite. There's a lot of writers out there who just use politics and ideology as a setting for the conflict rather than actually being central to their message. It's simply a solid formula to make a villain: take any sort of stance and push it to violent extremes. Comstock is a religious zealot, Andrew Ryan I don't think ever even mentions spirituality if I remember. Ken Levine's message in the two games is not about religion, but extremes.

There are benefits. It makes the villains more nuanced and relatable. It gives the protagonist room for doubt and allows for some of the "good" guys to take on antagonistic roles. But Korra also ends up supporting an oppressive regime, and Booker DeWitt gets shoehorned into fights against the people rebelling against his enemy because... Reasons?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (12 replies)
[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 54 points 8 months ago (9 children)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit@sh.itjust.works 42 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Watch 'The Wire' - the good guys are bad guys, bad guys are good guys. It's all mixed up!

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] paultimate14@lemmy.world 38 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Pokemon Sword and Shield.

Rose is trying to move the country off of fossil fuels and onto sustainable green energy. Somehow Gamefreak manages to portray this as being a terrorist and extremist. How dare he try to move Galar away from coal?

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Kornblumenratte@feddit.de 36 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Not exactly a story. I just watched Babylon 5, and it's fascinating how the good guys are the bad guys are the good guys are the bad guys...

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 35 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Voyager kinda fucks with my ability to set spoiler tags, so here is your Spoiler Warning.

The Cabin in the Woods (even tho the organisation is run by complete assholes, they also happen to postpone the end of the word)

Mass Effect series (the Geth are actually ok having peace with everyone. They just happen to be in a civil war with Reaper worshippers)

Witcher 2 (Letho turns out to be the good guy)

Wanted (the father turns out to be the good guy)

Battlestar Galactica 2004 series (yes, the Cylons enacted the nuclear holocaust on humanity, but there is a case to be made that the vast majority of them have been manipulated by a faction of ancient Cylons, which leads to a civil war later in the show)

[–] jeremyparker@programming.dev 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

Cylons being manipulated by other cylons doesn't absolve them of guilt.

BSG did have a few instances of the reverse of OP's question tho -- where the "good guys" turned out to be bad" -- trying to say this without spoilers; it's a 20 year old show but ffs of you haven't seen it, go see it now.

  • the (temporary) new admiral
  • several main characters during the part where they live on the dirty planet
  • a very specific set of seven main characters (wink wink) ... .and more,..

And there's one specific example of the full 360 -- a character that starts good, turns bad, but turns out they were actually good all along. I won't give the name, but they were passing messages to the resistance.

That show was awesome.

One note tho, on the topic generally: flipping character alignments is a frequent pre-shark-jump thing, and is often bad writing. In BSG, tho, all of the "flips" are pre-planned, or at least 100% true to their character (eg the 360 example above).

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee 35 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Does Dr Doom count for this? He believes he's seen humanity perish in every reality except the one where he becomes the absolute ruler.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] mukt@lemmy.ml 32 points 8 months ago (9 children)

Every story of Tom and Jerry.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] Tolookah@discuss.tchncs.de 30 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Does Snape count?

What about Loki(marvel)?

[–] daddyjones@lemmy.world 37 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Snape was never a good guy though. Very brave, yes and he had some good qualities. He was also vindictive and a bully - willing to put his petty dislikes above the quality of his teaching.

[–] turkishdelight@lemmy.ml 52 points 8 months ago (3 children)

He was also vindictive and a bully

I formed the impression that James Potter and his gang were the real bullies, and Snape is a tragic character traumatized by their bullying.

[–] candybrie@lemmy.world 53 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yes, but then he went on to be an adult bullying children.

[–] turkishdelight@lemmy.ml 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The book strongly implies that Snape turns into a horrible person as a direct consequence of James Potter's bullying. He seems to be a nice kid before that.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Tragic and also an asshole.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] illi@lemm.ee 24 points 8 months ago

Snape was a good guy, in a sense of oposing the bad guy.

He was however not a good guy in a sense of being at least a decent human being.

[–] Nemo@midwest.social 25 points 8 months ago (6 children)

Can't believe it's not mentioned yet, but Alan Moore's Watchmen

[–] emptyother@programming.dev 28 points 8 months ago (7 children)

I cant see Ozymandias as a good guy. At all. None of the "heroes" are, but Oz was the worst of them.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] The_wild_card@lemmy.ml 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Nah ozymandies was kind of an ass regardless . Did he solve a big problem ? Yes . Was he a good guy ? Far from it.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] LouNeko@lemmy.world 24 points 8 months ago (3 children)
  • Evangelion, sort of.
  • Tom and Jerry
  • Metal Gear Solid 3
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Illuminostro@lemmy.world 23 points 8 months ago

Falling Down. Prendergrass is the good guy.

[–] Donebrach@lemmy.world 23 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Kill la Kill, at least with the primary antagonist as the main villain isn’t really introduced until pretty late in the story.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 19 points 8 months ago (9 children)

Game of Thrones, everyone is basically a villain but some of them are actually alright (like the Hound and Jamie).

[–] sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think Jaime becomes a good guy. He starts out as a bad guy but he had a redemption arc.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] sibloure@beehaw.org 17 points 8 months ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 15 points 8 months ago

God Emperor Of Dune. Leto II needs his bath time.

[–] sxan@midwest.social 14 points 8 months ago

The French version of La Femme Nikita, although it's more of a redemption arc than "villain turning out to be a good guy." She starts out as a junkie petty crook who murders a cop in cold blood, spends most of the film assassinating people for the government, and in the end seems to have gotten her life together.

But she starts out as a very not-nice person.

[–] b8sell@slrpnk.net 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Interview With the Vampire's Lestat was a bloodthirsty murderer. The Vampire Lestat's Lestat was a bloodthirsty murderer ... with a conscience.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Inductor@feddit.de 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Artemis Fowl (Book 1) (he's the good guy in the following books)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 8 months ago

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban comes to mind.

[–] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Does borderlands count?

!handsome jack started off as an honorable person with morals, but was repeatedly stabbed in the back and jaded over time. He still has the mindset of a good guy but the chaotic planning of a bad guy due to the experiences that he's had.!<

[–] Adramis@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Looks like your spoilers aren't working - spoilers on lemmy are three : on either side of the spoiler.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] impudentmortal@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next β€Ί