Like that guy who self immolated and the cop that showed up just a pointed a gun at him until he burned to death?
this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2024
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To be fair… That really looked like the cop was having a traumatic event. He froze, he wasn’t being malicious.
Sounds like he shouldn't have a gun if he can freeze like that. If he's trained to pull out a gun when he panics, we need someone new to do the training. If that's just a thing people do in stressful situations, then no one should have guns.
Pulling a gun is a standard trained response to threats with severe bodily harm. Panic would be firing because of a percieved threat, see the acorn incident.
It seems dumb to look at that response from our perspective but a human being was burning to death before his eyes. Those are images, sounds, feeling (heat) and smells that will be with him for the rest of his life. The cop did nothing wrong because even in that moment there was so little to do.
He was trained to be a cop, not a firefighter so the training he fell back on was police training. People out here talking like most of them wouldn't be a shocked bystander too.
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"So, you're mentally ill and having the worst day of your life? Well..."
When the only tool you know how to use is a hammer... Everything becomes a nail.
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This is exactly why I'm joining law enforcement. I hate stupid cops. So I plan on taking a spot that could have been given to a dumbass. Understandably, this is probably devicive, but it's the best answer I could come up with.
This is a legitimate problem - there are educated people that view the position negatively but also wouldn't join. So the spots stay open for more uneducated people. Some departments are now requiring degrees and new recruits are put through some degree program before starting but that's only in some major cities.. so yeah people are gonna discourage you but keep your head up and keep that attitude, identify the idiots as early as possible (they will make themselves known quick). That's what I did - I left my cushy engineering desk job, took a crazy paycut and put on the badge.. and I talked a women off the top of a parking garage on my second month (didn't draw my gun or anything 😲🙄)
didn't draw my gun or anything
Pfft. And you call yourself a cop. The shame!
I legit lol'd at this. But in all seriousness - where I work, every action/decision requires me to articulate why. So if I do draw my gun I have to be able to articulate in a consistent and reasonable manner. If I don't draw my gun, I also have to be able to articulate that. For example, if a man with a rifle is running from me toward a school full of children and I decide to not draw my gun I will absolutely need to be able to articulate that. If an 80 year old in a wheel chair steals a KitKat using no weapons and I draw my gun I better have a good reason. I can't just say I felt threatened I have to articulate it and it needs to be consistent with everyone's body cams and witness statements and the physical evidence itself. I'm more than aware that not every department is like this though...
If that 80 year old's name was Jack Bauer, that would be justified. He can kill you with that KitKat
Good luck. Plan ahead for moral breaching moments. They're going to have you destroy the stuff of homeless people. They're going to have you pull people over because they "look suspicious". They're going to pressure you to lie to the public in service of police-community relations. And more. You cannot become a full police officer without these things happening because you have to go through a probationary period with an officer in "good standing".
That period is where they separate the ones willing to conform to the department standard from the ones who will not stray from what they've learned in the academy or their own moral standards.
This is why ACAB.
That said, if you want to cross that line, be sure beforehand what you're willing to do to maybe be the one guy who pushes the officer off of George Floyd. (And by maybe I mean you may never see that on your career, especially if you get marked as "too good" and stashed somewhere useful but harmless to them.)
The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you.
Yeah you might want to look up Christopher Dorner. When he didn't want to go along with the rest of the force, they hunted and killed him. You have to either conform with the gang or be expelled.
EDIT: Christopher, not Michael. I think I was confusing his name with a Klingon.
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You know what's fucked up? What the jumper was threatening (suicide) was a crime. What the police did was not (not in practice, anyway.)
Sure, it's technically a crime for them to shoot the guy, but one of them saw he was reaching for a gun. The police are protected so thoroughly by our broken justice system, that it would be largely an uphill battle to argue they deserve consequences for killing a "criminal".
Fake, cops would never aim the head
They actually aimed center mass and ended up hitting the head on accident.
Once. The other 98 bullets managed to sink a boat carrying a family of five. One did a U-turn and went straight for a baby. IA is investigating the possibility that an officer accidentally used a baby skull seeking bullet in order to source more of those bullets for the police force.
Out of curiosity, how often does something like this actually happen? More specifically: How often does a cop shoot someone who is attempting to commit suicide, who isn't a threat to anyone else but themself, resulting in their death? Could anyone provide any relevant statistics?
In Canada it happens too often: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/police-wellness-checks-deaths-indigenous-black-1.5622320
The scenario is usually the following:
- A person stops answering their loved one's calls or makes suicide threats to the loved one
- The loved one calls the cops to ask them to check in on them
- Said person answers the door with the weapon they were planning to end their life with in their hands
- Cops see a weapon, panic and shoot
What I don't understand is why cops don't just disengage / retreat from these situations. In most cases it looks like they were proceeding as if the person had to be stopped / apprehended.
This is suicide by cop, OP was asking about situations where the subject is not a threat to anyone. A suicidal person with a gun is a threat as they can turn the weapon around and any time (and they often do).
Except somehow soldiers have more restraint in this situation than cops do. We trained relentlessly on not shooting unless they actually raise the gun up towards you. And talking them down through a language barrier until they could be safely detained or they tried to shoot us.
Cops shooting the literal second they think someone has a gun is unacceptable when I can get 18 year old asvab waivers to understand restraint.
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I don't have statistics but the stories of, "officers responding to a welfare check killed person having mental breakdown" are a fucking drumbeat in the mental health community.
Please don't call the cops. Call for an ambulance or a mental health team if they have them in your area. Do not tell the operator you feel threatened unless you really are. You'll get a faster response but it will not be predicated on helping the person, they're going to attempt to restrain them first and foremost in that case and that's where an OD of Ketamine, electricity, or lead kills them.
I have an autistic son, and the possibility that he could one day interact with police without my wife or I there is the stuff of nightmares to me.
Elijah McClain
Linden Cameron
Those two come to mind immediately. I'm quite sure there are more.
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There is a lot of information about "suicide-by-cop", but I cannot find any statistics about the kind of scene depicted. Mostly, the people killed in these interactions have, or act like they have, a weapon in order to provoke a violent response. Do a search for suicide-by-cop statistics and you get lots of interesting results. Cheers.
That's not the best way to bring suicide numbers down
True that, but it does bring down the number of those damned to hell. So long as the police are able to shoot the sinner before the body hits the ground it's not suicide. I guess they're just trying to do the Lord's work and that callous hailstorm of bullets are just his hand.
👆 Do I need to tag this with sarcasm or was my intent obvious enough?
Sarcasm wasn’t needed. That’s actually the (older) thought process. Still held by many today of course.
You made my day, here you go
the cop who saw aaron bushnell self immolate;
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