ToastedPlanet

Progressives (and many other groups) voted for Biden in large numbers for the DNC, and what came out of that was the 2024 shitshow and a lame duck president.

Fewer numbers than in 2020. Biden got 81,283,361 votes in 2020. Kamala only got 75,000,783 votes in 2024.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-elections/president-results

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/president-results

The DNC thinks, only partially correctly, that as long as progressives don’t have a viable third party they’ll be forced to vote blue like it or not

The Democrats look at who votes. Democrats don't think about leftists, because as far as Democrats are concerned people who don't vote don't exist. The Democrats want political power and they are willing to chase voters, not non-voters, to get it.

that as a result the party can shift right as much as it wants.

They don't just think they can shift right, they think they have to shift right in order to win. If leftists can't be asked to vote for Republicans or Democrats then the Democrats thinks they are a lost cause.

You say that voting for them gives you leverage, but what good is leverage that you can’t use?

It is not about leverage. It's about power. Voting gives people power not leverage. If a group votes for a political party then that political party caters to that group. If a group doesn't vote then political parties chase other groups that do vote. Grassroots movements can get better candidates between elections.

This whole idea of leverage has been demonstrated to be false in this election. There is no fulcrum on the political spectrum. Democrats should be clambering to get leftist votes right now according to the hypothesis of leverage, but the evidence shows the opposite, the Democrats are frantically looking for moderate and conservative votes.

Political parties have to be shoved in the desired direction. The way to shove political parties during elections is by voting for them.

The two-party system guarantees a party duopoly, but it doesn’t say anything about which parties become part of that duopoly

Unfortunately the Democrats and Republicans have been entrenched for decades. The first-post-the-post system played out long before we were even alive.

so it’s possible to depose one of the two big parties in a certain election like what Bernie did in Vermont.

Bernie is not deposing the Democratic party, but co-opting it. He caucuses with the Democratic Party. We need to fully co-opt the Democratic party which is what Bernie tried to do in 2016 and 2020. This is what Trump has done to the Republican Party with the MAGA movement.

Now at least for a while you’ll end up splitting the vote,

Until we change the system, third parties will always split the vote. It's a mathematical certainty.

but you’ll need to accept that much if you want to get anything done because the DNC will absolutely not, never pass election reform

There are numerous examples of rank choice voting being implemented in America in blue states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_United_States

or shift left.

The Democrats have been incrementally shifting left since Clinton. Biden was our most progressive president since at least Carter by virtue of being the least conservative. Democrat Supreme Court justice nominations and appointments led to gay marriage being legalized.

If people on the left vote for Democrats, the Democrats will shift left. If people on the left spend their time denying themselves their most useful strategy to gain political power during elections, voting for Democrats, then the Democrats will shift right. edit: typo

There can be more than one lesson from an election. Democrats need a populist socialist and progressive narrative. Socialists, progressives, and leftists in general need to push the Democrats to the left by voting for them during elections. Between elections we need grassroots movements to get better candidates.

If leftists cling to accelerationism in 2026 and 2028 we will see the rightward trend of the Democrat party continue. Accelerationism makes it harder to fix things by allowing them to get worse while learning nothing.

Democrats of course because they are the furthest left, by virtue of being the least conservative, viable party we have. They are the only political tool available because of our first-past-the-post system.

Democrats cannot be leveraged by not voting for them. They have to be pushed to the left by voting for them. If they see there is a large block of socialist and progressive voters in the electorate they will move to capture these voters.

Until leftists learn to see their vote as a routine utility based decision they will not have any political power. To not vote is to give up power. Getting better candidates comes from grassroots movements between elections.

If we don't want to live under fascist rule then as long as we still have elections we need to vote for the Democrats. We need to tell people to vote for the Democrats and explain why. If anyone has the energy to argue on the internet then they can argue for the most useful approach we have.

No one thinks the Democrats are a great political party. But voting is the means of liberating ourselves from Republican rule in a two-party system. If people won't vote for Democrats then they will be ruled by fascists.

People will vote in their own self-interest. The amount of energy that goes into trying to make the most useful things people could do during elections, vote for Democrats, seem useless is of course to the benefit of the owner class and Republicans.

The Democrats and Republicans being the only game in town is a consequence of our first-past-the-post voting system. We are stuck with the Dems until we change the system. To refuse to use the Democratic Party, our only to effective political tool, is to refuse to engage meaningfully in politics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

The issue with that is the US's first-past-the-post system which results in our two party system. We need to change the system or else a new party will only act as a spoiler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

The US has more political parties. What we need is a voting system where third parties are not spoiler candidates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

The US' two party system is a result of our first-past-the-post voting system. We need to change the system first or else all leftist third parties will act as spoilers for the Democrats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

Grandpa wants to arrest everyone again!

Yes, and now they are proudly declaring they aren't going to put down the shovel. They want to keep digging this hole we're in.

There is no bottom by the way, they will just keep digging until enough people learn the lessons. If we wait to see how bad it can get it will only get worse.

Also, a great out of context quote that somehow works better out of context at showing how bad these ideas are.

“You’d think the Democrats would do better. I look at it from that perspective and so are we in as deep trouble as we were in 1984, 1988? Probably not. But there are trends like what’s happening among working-class voters of all colours and ethnic groups that are concerning. If they aren’t arrested, they could lead us into the wilderness again.”

The Democratic strategists predictably have both learned nothing from this losing this election and are planning on shifting the party to the right. Accelerationism is useless. There was no leverage over the Democrats, instead they are going to chase after moderates and conservatives who voted. If we are lucky enough to have another election, please vote and encourage other people to vote.