this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2024
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Chronic Illness
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A community/support group for chronically ill people. While anyone is welcome, our number one priority is keeping this a safe space for chronically ill people.
This is a support group, not a place for people to spout their opinions on disability.
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Be excellent to each other
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Absolutely no ableism. This includes harmful stereotypes: lazy/freeloaders etc
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No quackery. Does an up-to date major review in a big journal or a major government guideline come to the conclusion you’re claiming is fact? No? Then don’t claim it’s fact. This applies to potential treatments and disease mechanisms.
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No denialism or minimisation This applies challenges faced by chronically ill people.
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My MIL went off the vegan deep end about a year ago. She 100% believes that anything can be cured by going vegan, and non plant-based foods are what causes every issue. Not even exaggerating, she believes that within 8 weeks of going vegan, you'll be cured of: alzheimers, dementia, diabetes, cancer, hormone issues, autoimmune diseases, permanent disabilities, autism, and basically anything else wrong with you genetic or otherwise.
You can tell her you met someone, me, who has two of the things on your list and has been vegan for 3 years.
It's sweet that you think facts or reality matter to her, that went out the window a long time ago. We also stopped talking to her a couple months ago, for a lot of reasons
Congrats on that decision, sounds like it's good for you!
As someone with at least two things on your list, this sounds perfectly believable to me, and she's far from alone - people who buy in to this and similar crap (have you tried yoga? Acupuncture? Reiki? Keto? Fasting? the list never ends) will pop up like slimy slugs after it rains to pester disabled people with their almost missionary, ableist bullshit.
I have IBD, which is something that often requires surgery. I’ve seen so many people online shaming IBD sufferers for getting parts of their colon removed rather than “just trying keto/vegan/whatever”, as if they wouldn’t have died without the surgery. It infuriates me to no end that they blame the victims of these diseases, like we haven’t all tried god knows how many diets to get the pain to stop.
Surprised I haven't seen this in the replies. This type of thinking is why Steve Jobs tried to fast and diet his way out of pancreatic cancer which led to his death.
I had a younger co worker at work not know who steve jobs was / didn't know how he died and I explained it as "he tried to cure his cancer by doing fruit about it" lol
The difference is that Steve Jobs was a fruitarian which is dangerous.
Nah but a whole food plant-based has been scientifically proven to help with all those issues.
https://www.cfp.ca/content/63/10/744?etoc
All of them? Veganism will cure autism?
Nah. Pesticides and pollution will make it more widespread.
Mmmmmh yes, being super ableist in a post that's calling our ableism
Yes. Of course. My post above is super ableist. Not just ableist, super ableist. It makes normal ableists look like antiableists. To be honest, it probably transcends ableism. I'd say it belongs in the postableist era.
A bit confused though...Why is it ableist?
They're going to vaccinate you
Good. Who's they?
Scanned through your link. It doesn't mention most of them. It also almost immediately lumps vegetarian and low meat in with vegan. Lastly, it spends as much time talking about environmental concerns as health ones.
About all it says on the matter is that a healthy diet helps more than an unhealthy one. Vegans also tend to have a healthier diet. It's perfectly possible to have a healthy diet, including meat, and gain the same benefits.
You’re in denial as your second paragraph is straight up misinformation as you cannot be just as healthy when you’re continuing to eat meat as processed meat is a class 1 carcinogen and red meat is a class 2a carcinogen.
There is a significant amount of research done on the benefits of the whole foods plant-based diet.
Animal flesh will increase the amount of your cholesterol intake increasing your risk for heart disease as they’re also high in saturated fats.
Certain types of fish contain high amounts of mercury due industrial pollution with predator fish species having the highest amounts.
Not to mention all the possible food contaminantion.
I’m not going to remove what you said but please be more considerate in the future. This conmunity has high scientific standards for medical advice (see rule 3) and an opinion piece in a dodgy medical journal written by a single doctor doesn’t cut it.
Show us a major review or a government guidleline. Otherwise, replace “is” by “I think”.
What you sent has as much quality as a bachelor students opinion piece. And fails to consider correlation may not be causation.
For example vegan people are richer on average (being vegan is expensive). Turns out rich people are thinner on average. So is being rich or being vegan what declines in chances of obsesity?
I agree with your criticism towards the source. "Being vegan is expensive" is quite a generalized statement in need of citation from someone holding up "high scientific standards", though. I am convinced it is false in its generality. (Convenience and substitute products are expensive, but in no way necessary.)
You’re completely right that I didn’t apply the same standards to that statement. This is because Rule 3 is intended in favour to medical advice (and preventing quackery). So even if I was completely pulling the “being vegan is expensive” out of my ass, it would technically not be rulebreaking as that isn’t medical advice, unlike the persons comment above who insinuates being vegan will help autism and cancer.
But here’s my rationale (which is not peer reviewed lol) for why being vegan is expensive (TLDR personal experience, read the rest if you want details).
I mean unless you’ve got a lot of of time on your hand, which would mean you’re privileged, it’s going to be hard to not risk deficiencies as it is a tough balance to achieve. (I spent two yeats vegan).
And unless you’re willing to splurge a lot on expensive nut milks, B12 is really hard to get enough of.
Then there’s calcium, iron, Omega 3 fatty acids, vitamin D, none of which are necessary to supplement if you’re doing the diet right but you’re going to need to either live somewhere with a very large product selection (like a city) to have varied sources of, or be meticulous in your dieting and tracking, which can mean spending a long long time checking food labels and planning meals.
Most people will end up having to buy a couple of these supplements which are extremely expensive.
Of course, being vegan isn't magic and doesn't just cure cancer or whatever, but In my experience, being vegan is quite cheap.
If there isn't a sale, vegan multivitamins are like $15 for 100, and you generally need to get the omega3 separately, which is also like $15 for 100. I am using CAD, so it's likely cheaper in the USA.
That's about 60 cents a day, which is not expensive. Especially when it means I've not buying meat or random snacks during my journeys hither and yon.
None of those points actually back up your statement that it's misinformation. No matter the diet, imbalances or excesses will be bad for your health.
As for health benefits, do they compare to an "average" diet, or an otherwise healthy one. E.g. a "Mediterranean diet"? It's also worth noting that a vegan diet, without planning, will lead to deficiencies. Ultimately, our bodies evolved to run on a mostly plant based diet, with a small amount of meat supplementing it. It's what allowed us to oversize our brains so much. If you choose to alter what you eat, that's fine. I also agree that most people eat way too much meat. That doesn't mean going to the other extreme is better.
As for carcinogens, we are constantly dealing with various types. Burnt bread is technically carcinogenic. Our bodies have evolved to deal with them. Too much, and you'll obviously overload the repair systems and cause issues. The same can be said for a poor/deficient diet however.