this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
12 points (100.0% liked)
Politics
10179 readers
173 users here now
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it's a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Subcommunities on Beehaw:
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Just voting Harris and mobilizing others to do the same. That's the plan, regardless of how the poll numbers change. The media spin changes from day to day and will continue to until election day.
I'm looking for new ways to get the vote out in my area now. We just need enough ppl to go vote. We have the numbers.
My plan is to ignore nay sayers and vote and help others vote. Thought I was pretty clear about that.
So basically ignore people like you... Vote anyway. That's the plan.
The clarity of your plan was not in question.
I asked a very simple question about that plan. Why do you think you can change the minds of all these people who currently are not going to vote, but you don't think you can change the minds of the Democrat strategists?
You seem to be implying that getting Democrats to actually change policy to help them win is a lost cause, but then have this tremendous optimism toward changing the minds of thousands of people, many of whom are withholding their vote in protest against genocide. I asked why.
I did not ask "could you repeat your plan". This is a discussion forum, it should have been obvious you might expect some scrunity of an argument put forth on it. If your intention is to ignore "naysayers" then might I suggest a discussion forum is not the best place for you to be posting. Maybe a blog, or Substack?
I don't agree that the Dems need to change policy to win. Sure they could pick up some votes from the left but would sacrifice votes from other areas to achieve that. At the end of the day, those protesting will need to decide, Trump or not Trump. I hope enough of them will decide Harris is better and hold their noses, vote, then work from the inside on changing policy. That could actually work. If they don't, and they help Trump get elected, things will be infinitely worse for the Palestinians.
What makes you think that, given the evidence to the contrary?
Again, why are thousand of voters responsible for keeping Trump out, but not the Democrats?
Or, a slightly different question, why do you pin your hopes on these thousands and not on the Democrats? Do you think they're more likely to change their minds? Do you think people are actually going to vote in favour of a party committed to facilitating genocide, often of their distant relations, than the Democrats are to change policy.
Don't you think that's an absolutely devastating indictment of democracy? That no amount of voting block pressure can actually get a party to change policy.
I don't understand what this means. Voters vote. They don't control party policy "from the inside", they just vote on stuff.
And again, blaming the electorate for being moral, not blaming the Democrats for refusing to listen.
Because the policy isn't going to change before the election. Harris would be stupid to alienate Jewish voters going into the election. All of your philosophical discussion of morality means nothing if Trump is reelected. Objectively, Palestinians will suffer far greater under Trump than Harris. The protesters have a decision with actual consequences on front of them. If they help Trump get elected, I don't see how that = a moral choice in anyone's mind. I believe enough will come around. If not, we all suffer the consequences. Simple as that.
Also, you act as though the needle isn't moving yet I see stories like this on my feed:
US threatens Israel with arms shipment suspensions over Gaza conditions
On what evidence do you believe this. All the evidence provided thus far shows the opposite to be the case. The overwhelming majority of Democrats want to end arms sales to Israel. By what twisted mathematics does gaining a majority of supporters risk losing the vote?
Ignoring people who sit about complaining 'both sides/it doesn't matter/stay home/reeeee' who care so little about things they won't take an action as simple as voting. Yet you have all the time in the world to go online and gripe about the one viable party that's marginally closer to your purported ideals without spending a breath on the party actively hostile to everything these supposed leftists want.