189
Gustavo Petro responds to Trump: “Overthrow me…the Americas and humanity will respond”
(peoplesdispatch.org)
this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2025
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I'm not sure where are you exactly aiming with your remark but I'm going to retort based on what I want to perceive from it.
It's better to have national airplanes pick up your nationals than to condone allow them to be transported in military aircrafts, handcuffed and who knows what else, like criminals.
To my knowledge, Colombia refused military airplanes to land/cross their airspace, while at the same time calling out the social upturn being enacted by the new american cabinet. They denounced the attitude of a wannabe dictator, and in a very straightforward way. The rest of the world should be ashamed and banding together by now.
It's better to refuse it entirely rather than capitulate. Which is what they did. And they are now complicit in Trump's ethnic cleansing.
So you would rather have your kin handled like waste, than secure their safe return to their country?
For what? Bragging rights? Bragging over blood? Would those be acceptable losses to further a cause?
I would rather have world leaders not be complicit in ethnic cleansing, but apparently you're okay with it.
Would you want your kin killed for the sake of making a vanity moral stance?
What I'm okay or not with we can discuss after you answer my question.
Do you think he won't just start killing anyway? Do you know how much these flights cost?
You don't negotiate with Nazis because they don't give a shit and will do whatever they want regardless.
Who cares about the cost? Nothing is more costly than spilled blood that can be avoided. Refusing military flights to carry your people is not condoning with the fascist regime currently in place in the US.
And, again, to my knowledge, all military flights are being refused to enter colombian air space, for the reasons you are pointing. Colombia went to get their people, after giving the US a piece of their mind. By contrast, Brasil received theirs handcuffed like dangerous criminals.
Leaving those they want to deport to die is coward. The statement issued by the colombian president should be undersigned by every other country in the world.
Read some history. That's exactly why the Nazis came up with the Final Solution. It was the most cost-effective way to deal with what they viewed was a problem.
Thanks, Neville Chamberlain. What could go wrong with trusting Nazis to keep their word?
The US is using military planes to carry unwanted individuals, under inhumane conditions. Colombia refuses to allow those flights, sends their own means to get back theirs... and that is to condone the new US regime?
What am I missing? I admit to be confused.
And the highest representative of a country publicly and openly denounces the attitude and actions of a dictator in trainning, when other nations haven't, and that is not enough to make a position? What else, then?
You're missing the fact, again, that Nazis never keep their word. Negotiating with them fails every time.
Exactly who is negotiating with nazis? Where? When? How?
Are you going to argue that Trump isn't a Nazi now?
After calling the entire current american cabinet fascist a few times in previous replies, doing that would be, at the least, intelectually dishonest.
That part is already well defined.
What I want to know, from you, is who is negotiating with them.
Petro saying military planes can't deport citizens to Colombia but nonmilitary planes can in order to get the tariff threat removed is a negotiation.
That's funny.
I remember reading the push was over the US deporting colombians, on military plains, handcuffed, as if they were prisoners of war.
El Chato threats - and announces - tariffs in retaliation of Colombia not accepting such flights.
Colombia sends their presidencial airplane to ferry the deportees - to my understanding, this is akin to retrieving POWs - after which Chato Cheetah balks and the military flights are replaced by civilian freight.
Win for Colombia. They get their people back, in humane conditions.
The fascists can still turn back on these terms, granted, but then it will be back to the beggining, with the threat of commercial tariffs, etc. Colombia goes back to sending their planes to pick up their people.
What else do you want?
Colombia to abandon their people on unfriendly foreign soil?
What else do I want? Nazis to not ethnically cleanse? But I'm gathering that I am in a minority here unfortunately.
Brother what else is Colombia supposed to do to prevent an ethnic cleanse in an unfriendly state, other than sending planes to rescue their people from that state? Do you want them to declare war on the United States or what?
Now there's an idea. Do what the U.S. did to them.
You'd save a lot of pointless back and forth in threads like this if you just say what you mean, instead of making people drag it out of you bit by bit.
I thought I did say what I meant, but apparently whatever I say, as usual, is stupid and wrong and worthless.
So maybe you and everyone else should just tell me to fuck off and never talk to any of you again. It's probably for the best.
I've spent a good time of my day going back and forward with you exactly because I want to understand with you keep defending Colombia cooperated with fascists when they did not.
They had people there, in need of help, in the hands of very bad actors.
What were their options? Abandon those people? Become as bad as the fascists in the process? Worst, in my view. A fascist is an enemy, someone who abandons their kin is a traitor of the worst kind.
What was Colombia supposed to do, in your view? Give me a straighforward answer, not a circular comeback as you have been giving. Blurting you do not want nazis to ethnic cleanse is not an answer to my question.
The fascist american regime (not Nazi; that was the late National Socialist Party of Germany) is currently expelling foreigners by force. I am sure many have already died but we are not seeing mass graves and killings of elements of certain population groups. Be intellectualy honest, please. I am engaging in good faith.
No one here is saying they support that cadre of criminals. No one is attacking you or your position.
I was pretty sure I gave you a straight answer multiple times, but apparently everything I say is wrong lately, so I guess this is just one of all of those times.
Doesn't matter, we'll all probably dead in a year anyway. If I'm lucky, it will be less than five for me as it is.
That was unnecessarily cruel towards yourself.
Have I been engaging you in bad faith? Have I resorted to insult or personal attack? If so, that was uncalled for and I sincerely apologize.
You won't accept my answer so obviously my answer is wrong as usual.
Because I don't see this exchange as win/lose situation I can only state, again, that I find your statement unnecessarily cruel towards yourself.
And yet it's true.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/lnDvZtsnWfnnX4T0KA/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952z26k9wla3fx8dhkwwutpuyjzcnn8sa1hkwbais4l&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
I'm too stupid to know what that's supposed to mean, but I'm sure whatever it means I deserve it.
You're free to tell me to fuck off and die too, it's also what I deserve.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/EZP9BRX13iMQjVPZqL/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b95264x1o037ifvc6p39wk1z3u0kvz00kcogn8puiiur&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
Yes. Seriously.
You're talking to someone who's lesbian daughter is going to end up in a conversion therapy camp because he's too much of a fuckup to take advantage of emigrating to the UK because he was stupid enough to think he could actually save her life.
I mean I don't know why you keep talking to me, but...
Good news though: when that does inevitably happen, you will be free of me forever.
Why will that happen? And what has changed so you can't take advantage of moving to the UK?
Why do you care? Anyway, I am in the UK already. I'm just fucking it all up like I fuck everything up. And when we run out of money and have to go back to the U.S. and she gets put in a camp, it will be my fault.
And when that happens, be sad for her torture and be happy I won't be around to fuck up the world anymore.
Because empathy costs nothing, yet it is so hard to see it be spent.
Because I take no joy of seeing another human being suffer.
Because I want to show, even if only for a brief and fleeting moment, concern for you and your troubles.
Because I want to.
Why is going back the only option? Can't you work there?
You need to decide whether you're going to troll me with gifs or if you are going to act like you care. Because it can't be both.
Using a gif for a visual cue of my mental state isn't trolling. It's just me lacking words to perfectly express myself.
I'm not going to arm wrestle you to decide if I'm putting up a fake caring facade or if I'm being honest. That is solely up to you.
And to borrow your words: you are free to stop talking to me and be rid of me for ever.
I didn't say you were free to stop talking me and be rid of me forever. I said when my daughter gets taken away from me, the universe will be rid of me forever.
Should have been rid of me forever before she was even born honestly.
But why will your daughter be taken from you?
Again, isn't it possible for you to stay in the UK indefinetely? Just settle there? Or perhaps on some other european country?
It's possible for me to stay here indefinitely. She is not a citizen and she would not get citizenship for 10 years. And she can only stay on a family visa if I make more than £29,000 a year, which I won't because no one wants to hire me.
But can't your daughter apply for a work visa herself? Or a school one?
And what are your skills? If my countrymen, dumb as doorknobs go there and find work, it can't be that hard.
She's 14, so no work visa. And there's no such thing a grade school visa.
As far as my skills, years of media production and post production, but between chronic health issues and having to put my daughter in online school due to severe bullying, I am 5 years behind the times and, unsurprisingly, no one is interested.
She's too young, obviously. But being so young is she in risk of deportation? Families tend to enjoy a bit more liniency.
You may be a bit outdated but I'm going to risk you are not "unusable". I can't fathom what you actually do but there must be something you can do with those skills.
Yes, she is only here on a travel visa. She can stay a maximum of six months until she's here illegally.
And you would think there would be something worth hiring me for, but apparently not.
Strange laws. Children from immigrant families can enroll to school in my country even while their families are waiting for have their requests processed to become declared immigrants.
Squid, I'm going to be level with you. I risk we're in the same time zone. It's getting late and I've been awake since four a.m.; I'm running on fumes here.
Feel free to message me if you feel like chatting a bit. I spend way too much time here, under the excuse of getting some information in my head.
Keep trying, both for work and for a way to get your daughter to be safe there, here, in Europe, permanently. Please, Squid. From a father to another. We can never give up.