HIMARS takes out a Russian R-330Zh "Zhitel" electronic warfare vehicle and several infantry. (streamable.com)

submitted 3 years ago by LaFinlandia@sopuli.xyz to c/ukraine@sopuli.xyz

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[-] cooljacob204@kbin.social 3 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

I mean now you're just pivoting from the standard soldier, which we are taking about, to the ones committing the war crimes. Which isn't an insignificant amount and I won't try to excuse their behavior but I don't think it's fair to say all of them are war criminals.

But for the standard Russian soldier hanging out in a trench after getting swept off the streets in some minority region of Russia and pushed straight to the front lines and getting a grenade dropped on him from a drone; Yes, I feel a bit bad for them.

[-] snooggums@kbin.social 1 points 3 years ago

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[-] cooljacob204@kbin.social 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

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[-] snooggums@kbin.social 1 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

However because I feel sad for Soldiers dying in a war I'm suddenly an apologist?

In general, no.

Trying to pain the "vast majority" of the Russian army invading Ukraine as falling for propaganda or being conscripted, and then doubling down on how they are just poor misguided souls while the war is currently going on right now, yes. That context makes it being an apologist.

We can focus on the mistreatment of Russian soldiers by Russia after they are driven from Ukraine. Nothing positive comes from that right now in a thread that exists in a community about Ukraine discussing the current invasion of Ukraine.

[-] cooljacob204@kbin.social 1 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

Trying to pain the "vast majority" of the Russian army invading Ukraine as falling for propaganda or being conscripted, and then doubling down on how they are just poor misguided souls while the war is currently going on right now, yes. That context makes it being an apologist.

Sure if you ignore the context of the thread about how it's bittersweet watching them get knocked out. Reminder bittersweet means "arousing pleasure tinged with sadness or pain".

And to be very clear I'm not dismissing their crimes. I'm simply saying most of them are human and I feel bad watching humans die. I would argue an attempt to dehumanize them makes things worse because it's ignoring why they are there in the first place and instead dismissing it to "Russians bad". They are there because a bunch of elite fascist Russians want to "revive" an empire, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of their own young men. (Not to ignore the absolutely crushing amount of Ukrainian casualties either). It's pure evil from Putin and crew.

It isn't really an easy thing to put in words. Because every Russian soldier dying is potentially a Ukrainian life saved. I'm fully aware of that and I celebrate Ukrainian victories like this. However it does sadden me that it had to be done.

Nothing positive comes from that right now in a thread that exists in a community about Ukraine discussing the current invasion of Ukraine.

Fair enough, to be honest I thought I was in combat footage when I originally posted my replies.

[-] rogerhaase@mastodon.social 1 points 3 years ago

@cooljacob204 @LaFinlandia @espentan @awwwyissss @snooggums Being misguided by propaganda is no excuse for murder, rape, torture, abduction, plunder, destruction etc.

Every adult human being makes his own decisions and is responsible for them.

[-] rogerhaase@mastodon.social 0 points 3 years ago

@snooggums @LaFinlandia @espentan @awwwyissss @cooljacob204 Being sorry for lives lost in the war, which means being sorry for russians getting killed is bothsidesing and false balance.

Russians started the killing. Russians can stop it any minute. Russian commit barbaric war crimes every day.
Russians are human beings which are responsible for their actions. Russians decide every day to perpetuate the barbarism. They are responsible. Each and everyone who does not stand up against the terror

[-] Galactic_Rebel@mastodon.social 1 points 3 years ago

@rogerhaase @snooggums @LaFinlandia @espentan @awwwyissss @cooljacob204 absolutely 💯
May every Russian that raises their hand to kill on Ukrainian soil be left to grow beautiful flowers
Use your arms to rebel against your oppressive filthy Russian government.
There is no excuse for the horrific evil they've brought to the Ukrainians and by extension the rest of our world. This is a Russian peoples enabled war. No different then the German populace in ww2. Period.

[-] cooljacob204@kbin.social 1 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

It's not both siding lmao. I'm not going to bother explaining because I explained my viewpoint plenty in my other comments. You're free to read them.

However I find it irritating that you can't ever have a nuanced view on something without being forced onto a side by other commenters.

I'm pretty clearly pro Ukrainian and anti Russian. And it sucks that people like you attempt to make people like me who feel some amount of sadness for Russian foot soldiers dying in stupid war into an anti Ukrainian thing. Sorry for being a human with human emotions.

[-] Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

This conversation is over. Understanding that while russian deaths are tragic, Ukrainian deaths are both tragic and unjust. There's a difference. Lamenting that war and its effects are awful is natural but while it is still ongoing people need to be clear when pointing out the tragedy that it is in no way implying defenders should be guilty for their actions (not saying anybody did). Russians are going to die every day they insist on occupying Ukrainian soil. This is an unfortunate, but also necessary fact. Any further dialogue on this gets bans.